YAS Podcast: Sexquisite #147 Transcript
In this Sex Worker Pride special, Maedb Joy (Sexquisite) and AM Davies (YasPodcast) examine the strip-club industry, exploitation scandals, and the fight for decriminalisation. Both survivors of serious road accidents, they discuss how those experiences fuelled their activism and the creation of Sexquisite, YAS Podcast, a program of YAS Work, and Strippers United, showing that sex-worker rights know no borders.
*This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* *This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* Begin transcript after opening credits.
Maedb: [00:00:00] Welcome to this special podcast, collaboration between the Sexquisite Podcast and uh, the YAS Podcast part of YAS Work Organization. Hi AM, how are you doing?
AMD: I’m great. Thanks so much for having me today on your awesome podcast. I’m so happy to be here with you.
Maedb: Yeah. I came across your pods and I thought everything looked amazing, and it’d be cool to have a international conversation between u s to see the state of sex work, to learn a little bit more about what you do and why.
Greetings and welcome to YAS Podcast, formerly known as Yes, a Stripper Podcat. This is our podcast, all of ours, a podcast for all sex workers. In this podcast, we will discuss the ins and outs, ups and downs of our lives and experiences as sex workers. I am your host, Daisy Ducati. I am your hauxprah, GiGi Holliday.
I’m your stripper queen from the North Onyx. I’m AM Davies, and this is YAS [00:01:00] Podcast.
Maedb: Yeah. Uh, you were telling me there’s been some breaking news that’s happened in the States at the moment.
AMD: Yeah. I woke up to some news this morning on two different channels. I got messages from some colleagues that, um, this major, um, strip club company, it’s called RCI.
Um, there, it’s called RCI Hospitality Holdings. Sounds like super innocuous, but actually they own like 55 strip clubs across the United States, and they’re being indicted for major tax fraud, for like avoiding paying $8 million over the course of about 15 years.
Maedb: Wow.
AMD: Yeah. And um, there’s like three major clubs.
One of them I danced at for a brief time, in fact in New York. Um, but there’s like three major clubs that are mostly under fire. But I just wonder like if they investigate more, like how much more they’ll find. And like, [00:02:00] my main concern, like the first thing I thought about is like, what’s gonna happen to the workers?
You know?
Mm-hmm.
Like if they have to pay out $8 million plus, like maybe they might get in trouble for more stuff and they have to pay out more. Not that I’m like trying to be like, oh, the poor strip club owners. ’cause I’m not, don’t get me wrong, but when the strip club’s close, then we have problems for the workers.
Maedb: Right.
AMD: And so I guess like, yeah, so that just came out this morning. Um,
Maedb: wow.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: And have the strip clubs been closed? Are they closed down on currently?
AMD: Not yet, no. Because, you know, you know how lawsuits are like, everything takes a lot of time, you know, so it’s definitely gonna take some time for them to figure out, but like, yeah, my major concern is what about the workers, specifically the dancers, you know?
Um, ’cause bartenders and servers, it’s pretty easy to get another [00:03:00] job. Not that I’m, not, that I’m trying to like. You know, say that their lives are easy, but, um, uh, my first concern is always the sex workers. So that’s why.
Maedb: Yeah, of course.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: Yeah. What’s the state, what’s the state of the strip club industry in the states right now?
’cause right here it’s dire.
AMD: Yeah. It’s a complete mess. And that’s kind of what’s frustrating about this news is that like, if y’all just did it right, you know, if you just followed the fucking rules, like, like everybody else. You wouldn’t have this problem and then the dancers wouldn’t have this problem.
And if you just worked with the workers, like we wouldn’t have all these problems. You know, like there’s just so much greed, you know, that, that they’re so greedy that not only did they have to steal from the dancers ’cause that happens. Everywhere, especially at these really big corporate levels. This is a high, this is a huge conglomerate corporation.
Probably one of the biggest. Right. And um,
Maedb: wow.
AMD: Like [00:04:00] why do you have to steal more money? Because, ’cause like $8 million is a lot of money to like help taxpayers and to help people with healthcare and things like that. You know, like you’re just so greedy, you know.
Maedb: And it doesn’t really help with, um, changing people’s public perceptions on sex workers or strip clubs, even though it’s nothing to do with the workers,
AMD: Right.
Maedb: It’s to do with the, the people running the clubs. But yeah, it really doesn’t help to negative public perception.
AMD: Yeah. And then, then, yeah, so then everyone wants to click on it because they’re seeing the word strip, stripper strip club in the news, and they click on it and then they have their 2 cents about what we should be doing with our lives.
And so the whole state of it, just in general to like full circle, your question is, um, there’s massive constant exploitation. I, I was a stripper starting in 2002. So I’ve, I’ve like been able to see the rise of exploitation over the last 23 years. [00:05:00] Um
Maedb: mm-hmm.
AMD: And it’s just increasingly bad. Um, and I know it’s bad everywhere ’cause I talk to people all over the world regularly, so, um, yeah.
Yeah, I would just say like income is not like what it used to be. Because,
Maedb: yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. ’cause of the state of the world, there’s a recession and
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: Yeah. Do you have councils imposing rules on restrictions on how close you can, like dance to clients and stuff like that? I mean, because that’s an issue we have here.
AMD: Yeah. They’ve already done that. They’ve done that in the past, and they’re like, um, they’re not really doing it that way. So the way that they’re, the way that they’re imposing things over here is by doing, um, age changes for like when you can,
Maedb: right.
AMD: Dance, right? So in Texas they changed the law from 18 to 21.
Um, so you know those young people who are, you know, whatever. We become strippers for so many different reasons. Sex worker strippers. [00:06:00] And some people are like getting away from their family when they’re 18 years old and need to take care of themselves for reasons that we don’t understand or know about.
And like now you just took that livelihood away from that young person who found a way to finally take care of themselves. You know, that’s just one example, right? Like, I’m not saying that’s happening for everybody, um, but they’ve already done that for places like you can only dance as far away, um, or no contact at all.
Or then, um, some other, but then the clubs do dumb rules. Like you can’t exchange money with the customers anymore, so
Maedb: Wow. So it’s probably, so they’re in charge of the money and they handle how that transaction goes and how much you get.
AMD: Mm-hmm.
And yeah, and that kind of happened in California because California did impose a law, but not.
Just for strippers, they imposed, I’m sure you’ve heard of this, the AB5 law was like a huge,
Maedb: I don’t know. Maybe not. I don’t know if I have, tell, tell. Tell me about it.
AMD: Yeah. ’cause so the AB5 law [00:07:00] has been a huge mess. It was a huge disappointment. It basically, the law was supposed to protect independent contractors who were, or workers who are being misclassified as independent contractors, when really they should have been given the benefits of employees.
And um, yeah. As the government does, they make these laws, and they pat themselves on the back, and then they don’t do anything to follow up to make sure that they’re being implemented. And so then the club owners, you know, took advantage of loopholes and started to figure out ways to make the dancers pay their own wages because AB5 made the clubs, like, made the owners, they’re like, okay, you have to pay hourly wages and give these people benefits. So what they did is they slashed hours because in the, in the states, if you are working under or over a certain amount of hours, you, um, your, your workers get listed under a different tax bracket.
So let’s say I work eight [00:08:00] hours a shift and all of, and a 55 to a hundred of us work an eight hour shift, then we’re in a different employee tax bracket and they have to pay more.
Maedb: Mm-hmm.
AMD: So what they did is they cut everyone’s shifts. So you could only work some of some of these clubs so you could only work four hours shift so that they had less workers working less hours so they can pay less employee tax.
You get that right?
Maedb: God.
AMD: So now I can only work four hours if I want to go to work. So the, these are the ways that they find these little loopholes. Um, and then they were being like, come in and your first five lap dances you do, you don’t get paid for, because that’s their way of like saying that they paid you.
Dude, it is so complicated. I don’t even know how to explain it to you because they make it so complicated, so on purpose and every club has like a different scheme. Like we don’t need
Maedb: Wow.
AMD: The [00:09:00] government to give us shit. ’cause the club is, is fucking with our shit so much like it’s happening right in our workspaces.
Yeah, it’s definitely, yeah. What about there? Is it same, same. Different.
Maedb: Well, I was just gonna say, that’s crazy. So do they pay you an hourly wage then?
AMD: Um, I think it really depends. Like I, I know of one club for sure, it’s the one that I used to work at that they are getting hourly wage. They, they, they are doing it right, but they’re also the club that cut back the hours to only four hours so that they could
Maedb: God Yeah.
You can never win.
AMD: Yeah. Right. But they are, yeah, they are doing it right. But then they kind of did that, that annoying thing. Um, but most of them no. Most of them, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maedb: Well, here we have the issue that strippers, um, aren’t, they don’t have workers’ rights or protections, so technically self-employed, but then you get fined if you’re sick, you get fined if you’re late, uh, you’re treated like a [00:10:00] worker.
And so there’s been, the sex worker union, uh, took a case to court and actually won work workers’ rights for someone. But I think it’s a bit contentious in the community. Some people think it’s not a good thing, like you were saying, ’cause it means more regulation as well. And do you keep like all of your earnings and so it’s a really difficult thing to navigate.
AMD: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I don’t know how I feel about employee status versus independent contractor status either. I’m like, can we have a third option? Like
Maedb: it’s true. Right?
AMD: That’s a lot.
Maedb: ’cause you’re working on an establishment and working like with someone, you need protection. But then also like you are earning, like you are the person, you are the business in the club, right?
AMD: Yeah, yeah. Like people come to the club just mostly to see the dancers. So if it weren’t for the dancers, they wouldn’t have a business. Which, which qualifies that as employee here in the States. Does it do it the same there in the uk?
Maedb: If, [00:11:00] say that again? If you work at a strip club, are you qualified as an employee?
AMD: Right? So like if, so in the United States, if you are the reason for that operation, for instance, a restaurant, um, needs to have servers and cooks to produce the food because that’s the reason for the business.
Maedb: Yes.
AMD: And so that’s why they’re employees. So at a strip club. The strippers are the reason for the business.
If they didn’t have strippers, they wouldn’t have that.
Maedb: Yes, of course. Of course. Yeah. Same thing.
AMD: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah.
Maedb: And you know, you’re technically treated like an employee without any employee rights. And I think one of the main reasons people want to work as rights is like, uh, people getting fired without any explanation.
Um, and then there being no repercussions for the club, which is a big problem here.
AMD: Yeah. I mean, that’s the same. Yeah. But then same. Yeah. And we have, like we, you know, there’s Strippers United, which is a really great organization that, um, I helped form and I still work with, um, who [00:12:00] we, we do a lot of like, um, unfair labor practice.
Um, uh. You know, we file those for dancers and we help them get at least some money for getting fired or, um, some people have had their jobs reinstated, but which is, which is all great. You know, it’s great to get your job reinstated after you’ve been fired, but we all know how toxic strip clubs are, so like.
Let’s say I got fired. I fought them, I won, I go back to work. Now I have to work in that environment where I’ve been fired and I legally battled them. You know, so it’s, it’s good.
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: It’s good to hold them accountable, but then at the same time, like the behavior of these people, um, it’s just, it’s toxic, it’s abusive, you know?
And then like, you have to go back to that, and it’s just so frustrating. It’s like, why can’t we all just like. Just like work together to make a ton of money. Like why? Why do we have to fight [00:13:00] management and ownership to
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: To do our job that like we help make them millions and millions of dollars.
Like why aren’t you being nicer to us? I don’t get it.
Maedb: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And so you run your own organization.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: I’d love to hear a little bit about how you founded that, what your story is.
AMD: Yeah. So yes, work actually, you know. I’ve always been doing what I’m doing with YAS Work now, which is, um, doing the podcast and, um, working with people to create panels and being on panels and things like that.
Um, and working on trainings. I just did it not under that name. And we also, the podcast used to be called Yes, a Stripper Podcast and then. You know, the internet just keeps getting weirder and weirder with the word stripper and the word sex.
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: So I was like, I, we have to change this name. You know? I can’t have, yes-
I can’t have stripper in my handle [00:14:00] anymore. I just didn’t want to. Mm-hmm. I could, but like, I don’t know what’s gonna happen. I can’t have links with the word stripper in it. Like, yesastripper.com.. I, I can’t, can’t do it anymore. So I had to. So I changed the name. So YAS Work YAS stands for Yes. A stripper.
Um, and Oh cool. One of the thanks. And it also encompasses all sex workers, which Yes, a Stripper Podcast. Always. We always worked with all different sex workers, but, but the name didn’t reflect that. And so sometimes I’d ask people on the podcast and be like, oh, well I’m a dominatrix. Am I still a good fit for Yes, a Striper, ? And I’m like, yeah. Yes, you’re a good fit. Yeah. So, and we just like, you know, our goal is to change public perception through like these types of conversations. Um, and through educating civilians and pole dancers who I feel have a large responsibility to the sex worker community. Um, and, uh.
Yeah, that’s our main goal. And so [00:15:00] to like answer my own question, like why aren’t these people being nice to us? It’s all whorephobia. And um, and that’s a major goal of ours too, is to dismantle, resist whorephobia, dismantle whorephobia, and teach people about their phobias. So maybe they didn’t get the fuck over it.
Such a waste of time. So harmful.
Maedb: It’s such a waste of time. So harmful. It’s so weird. Like why are people so weird about sex? Like, but specifically sex workers, right?
AMD: Yeah. ’cause we love to have sex, I guess, or that’s what they think, right? Like we’re out here just like, I just want sex all day, every day. Or just that we are so freely talking about it, like we’re not afraid to talk about it.
You know? I don’t know.
Maedb: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So was there a reason or like a formative experience that made you wanna start it? Did you face a lot of stigma and shame when you were working as a stripper?
AMD: Yeah. I mean, yeah.
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: Throughout life. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, I just love, I love talking, I like interviewing people.
Um, and I, I like, I [00:16:00] like sharing stories, so I guess, and like sex workers are my favorite people, and it’s my favorite stuff to talk about, you know?
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: I mean, what about you? Why did you start a podcast?
Maedb: Well, so it came from Sex Exquisite, which is a performing arts company.
AMD: Mm-hmm.
Maedb: Um, I Run, which is a creative platform for sex workers.
And we put on cabaret shows, we’ve made theater, um, uh, events and nightlife, which then to sex workers and we wanna create paid creative opportunities for sex workers. And that basically started as I was. Um, at drama school, I’d been a sex worker since I was 14.
AMD: Nice.
Maedb: And I had quite a formative experience where the police were involved when I was younger.
And then I basically cut off that side of my life. Went back to college. Well, I had a road accident and I almost lost my right foot. Um, but. I’m over two years managed to teach myself to walk again. And in that time period I started writing about my experiences and I basically, I wrote loads about sex work, but I pretended they were like these characters.
And that’s kind of how I got into like theater.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: And so I’d studied [00:17:00] performing arts, ended up at drama school, auditioning with this monologue, which was about me, but I was like, yeah, I’ve just done this research about girl called Holly. Yeah. And so, yeah, we had to put on an event, I put on an event for sex worker artists.
And, um, it was sex exquisite. No one knew that I was a sex worker. And then I met so many amazing people through that event. It carried on building the pandemic happened.
AMD: Mm.
Maedb: Which, I dunno if that was a big thing for you. Oh God, yeah. Um, but we started, yeah.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: So the pandemic actually bought. Along like sex workers from like across the world.
And we made a theater show online, uh, and then started carried on, like making shows in person. Beyond that, and the podcast is a new thing. It started this year and yeah, I just think it’s just another form of a way that we can impact change beyond like our live shows.
AMD: Yeah, definitely. I feel like the more content we create, the harder it is for us people to ignore us.
You know?
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: I don’t know. Maybe that’s just a fantasy, but. [00:18:00]
Maedb: Yeah, definitely.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: You had a road traffic accident as well, right?
AMD: I did, yeah. I, it was my left leg. It started off with my foot. Um, it was when I lived in Los Angeles and, um, I, my foot was smashed. My, all five of my toes and ball of my foot were smashed on impact.
Pancaked together. Just really trying to give you all the visual there. And uh, and then a year and a half later, ’cause I was doing the thing, you were talking about, learning how to walk again and trying to make that work for a year and a half. And then, um, that, uh, structure started to break down. Um, it was kind of, we knew going in that it was you know, a 50 50 chance of it working out or not. And it did not. Um, and so then I had my lower left leg amputated. Um, and thus pretty much ended my stripping career. Plus, by the time I had my leg amputated, I was 40. I was almost 40, and like
Maedb: mm-hmm.
AMD: I had been dancing in the [00:19:00] clubs for 18 and a half years, which is like pretty hard on your body, you know? Yeah. So I was already phasing out of that lifestyle. Like, like for instance, like I was 38 when I had the accident. I was like, I don’t know how many years I have left on these knees and in this body to do this type of work. And then that happened and I was like, well, now I really am not gonna put my body through this with like damage in multiple places, you know?
So essentially ended my in person dancing, stripping career. Um, and I did some online stuff, but that just wasn’t as fun for me. I really like being around people, like in person.
Maedb: Yeah, it’s a totally different type of work, I guess, especially when you’re used doing stuff. Yeah, in person.
AMD: Yeah. And I could sell more sex work in person.
Like I was just better at it that way, you know? And just online. And I don’t know, it was just to, it was just totally [00:20:00] different. It was like you, I had to change everything after 18 and a half years. And I’m like,
Maedb: yeah, I’m sorry. That fucking sucks.
AMD: Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. Same for you. It does suck.
Maedb: Did you have to, yeah, it does suck.
It’s a lot. Mm. And did you have to, ’cause you’re in the States, did you have to pay for the surgery?
AMD: Um, not the original. No, no. I got really lucky. They like, retroactively gave me like, like kind of sneaky style. Gave me like insurance that I didn’t have, like it was like Medicaid or something like that.
’cause I didn’t have insurance. Like insurance is really expensive here. Like good insurance is like four or $500 a month.
Maedb: What?
AMD: Oh yeah. That’s like normal. Yeah, that’s like, that’s like kind of like not a bad deal. 400 if you’re paying out of pocket. Yeah. So it’s,
Maedb: wow. That’s crazy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. We have the-[00:21:00]
And NHS here, which is National Health Service, and it’s falling apart and the government is slowly privatizing it and selling bits of it off, which sucks. Um, and my hospital, ex hospital experience was pretty shit. There was like 34 beds and like one nurse and you’d be like,
AMD: oh my goodness.
Maedb: Lying in a pool of your piss.
AMD: Oh
my gosh.
Maedb: Or shit.
Or something. And you’re like, pressing the bell. And I was like, but like I’m very lucky that I had a very ambitious surgeon ’cause I had to sign a paper for them to amputate my leg. Um. And, you know, I was 16. I was like, oh my god. Like, and super high on ketamine.
AMD: Mm.
Maedb: Uh but yeah, luckily he managed to put it together.
But yeah, you never know within the healing process like what’s gonna happen.
AMD: That, and like something that happened for me ’cause um, you know, I not apples and oranges, you’re 16 healing is probably happening a bit faster. My a a
Maedb: hundred percent. Yeah.
AMD: So yes, definitely. Um, yeah, like I was like. Okay. I have [00:22:00] no, no unemployment option, like no unemployment insurance.
I have no, no backup plan. I have no resume for to get a new job.
Maedb: Yeah. What did you do?
AMD: And I’m like 40. I am very clever. I, I, first of all, I had some lawsuits that, you know, one from the accident and a couple from some clubs. Miraculously, some family inheritance came through. I got really, really lucky. Um, some people crowdfunded for me, um, initially after the accident initially. And then, um, yeah, throughout the years I just had these, like random money dumps on me that I was really careful with. Like, every time I got money I was just like, I made sure I did the right things with them so that I could hold on to what I have or make my money, make money.
Because I was like, I don’t know how I’m gonna make money. And, um, you know, now I’m, I’m okay. I’m, I’m. I’m taken care of now, [00:23:00] but I take care of, you know, my people in one way and they take care of me in another way. And, um, so that I’m able, now I’m free to do this work. Um, because the working as an activist in sex work is, um, not a high paying job, not a high paying job.
It’s very demanding. Um, and it’s mentally it can be pretty brutal. Um, and so because I don’t have to worry about generating regular income for myself on the level that I used to, don’t get me wrong, I still need to generate income, but not on the level I used to. Like when I lived in Los Angeles by myself, that was an expense of lifestyle.
Oh yeah. Um,
Maedb: are you based outside of the city now?
AMD: I live in Pennsylvania now In the countryside? Yes.
Maedb: Oh, nice.
AMD: It’s very peaceful. Thankfully very peaceful. ’cause I couldn’t imagine, I couldn’t imagine [00:24:00] doing the work I’m doing now, living in the United States is um, you know, I know things aren’t much better in the UK but it’s extremely difficult to live here and to see what’s happening.
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: here, you know, um, so I feel very lucky that I’m taken care of so that I can do the work that I’m doing. And try to pay other people. Yeah. That’s my main goal. I wanna like, I wanna pay other sex workers, you know?
Maedb: Yeah, yeah. For sure. Definitely. I agree with that. Do you have much of an in person sex work community?
Or have you just got this sort of like online?
AMD: No, I don’t because I moved really far away from home. I didn’t, I don’t know anybody here. I live with my partner and I meet his friends, but they’re nothing like my friends. And they’re, you know, they like cars and, um. You know, I don’t know what dudes like, but you know, they like stuff that we don’t really talk about that much.
Um, and uh,
Maedb: yeah,
AMD: I have like one [00:25:00] friend, she lives down the street. She’s an amazing, she’s one of my closest friends now. Um, and, and then we go to the strip club. But you know, it’s been hard.
Maedb: That cute.
AMD: Yeah, it’s been hard to convince the strippers though there, ’cause they’re all like super young and they don’t know who I am, so I’m just like.
We just try to go and tip them well. And like at first I was like, I wanna be their friend, but that’s not working out. So
Maedb: yeah, I feel like there’s, um, yeah, there’s a load of sex workers that wanna be involved in community and activism, and then there’s some that are like, I’m just here to get my bag. And I
AMD: totally,
and I respect that a hundred percent.
Um, but, but I have like a, I have like two, like two stripper sex worker friends out here. Um, one current and one x. Yeah. So, and then like I said, I talk to y’all every day, all day, every day I talk to sex workers all over the world.
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: Mm-hmm.
Maedb: I, I feel like sex work is so isolating and I think, I dunno how it was for you, well, I guess you worked as a [00:26:00] stripper, so you were around other strippers, but I don’t all the time.
Was there like, was there friendship or was it competitive?
AMD: It was both, you know, it was both. And then sometimes your friendship, you would even experience some competitiveness. Like even if you were friends with someone, like depending on the client or the night or how much money you needed to make, you know.
Um, but it was. Yeah, there was camaraderie, but then like if you leave that workplace, that changes. I don’t, you know what I mean? Like, if you’re as one place, it’s like, we’re family. We’re family. And then you leave and it’s like you hardly talk to those people anymore. And that can feel, that’s when it feels isolating.
Um, especially when it’s a place that like you’ve worked at for 11 years.
Maedb: Yes. Yeah.
AMD: Mm-hmm.
Maedb: Definitely.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: That’s so interesting because like full service is a lot more like you work alone and also like, um, I was a camgirl for a [00:27:00] bit, that’s also like working alone. And so I found when I’ve made sex worker friends, you become like very bonded very quickly.
Yeah. But I guess it’s ’cause you’re not in direct competition with someone.
AMD: Yeah, like in the club, like if someone comes in that we know has money, then like, yeah, we’re gonna feel in competition with each other then. And like kind of all bets are off, like depending on where you’re working.
Maedb: Mm-hmm.
AMD: Sometimes it can be shitty and sometimes, like I said, it just kind of depends on the night. But like, I’ve done camming too. Um, but I did it like collaborative style and that was really, really fun. Yeah. Camming, I think it’s,
Maedb: what do you mean, collaboratively?
AMD: She would, like my friend who did camming would ask me to come over and help her when she’d have a client
Maedb: cool
AMD: on the line for hours, you know, just to keep him entertained.
Um, and so I did that many times and that was some really fun shit. Um, yeah. But yeah. Yeah, for me, I. I, I love doing, I did all kinds of sex work, um, but [00:28:00] mostly stripping, but I, I just love being around people, you know, that, so I think that’s why I preferred the clubs. Like I just loved the vibe, you know?
Maedb: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Definitely.
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Maedb: And so you would’ve worked like pre 2008 and post 2008. What was it like before?
AMD: You know what?
Maedb: Before the, yeah.
AMD: People ask me all the time. I’m like, I don’t know. I didn’t really notice. I dunno why I didn’t, I didn’t really notice. I don’t, I cannot
Maedb: really
AMD: remember. Yes. I [00:29:00] cannot remember.
Let me think. Let me think. I was working in a really small club in Los Angeles and I think that, um. It was such a different club from the corporate clubs that I went to that I was already okay with making less money because, um, I wasn’t in the higher end clubs. Um, and so I, I was already making less money, was just why I think it didn’t bother me so much because I knew that I was making a career change at the time. The clubs in Los Angeles, they’re not great. It’s really hard to find a good club there. Yeah. And it’s been like that for a very long time. Um, they’re pretty corrupt. They’re pretty exploitative. Um. And all kinds of stuff was happening. Lots of changes happened. I would say around like 2004 and five is when the changes happened in [00:30:00] LA and the money started to get weird already.
And I think that was another part of why I left. ’cause I’m like, they’re forcing me to take my panties off on stage and I have $0. And this was in like 2000?
Maedb: Yeah, it’s like that here.
AMD: Yeah, it was like 2006 and seven before this like economic crash and I’m like. You can’t force me to take my panties off.
Like you just can’t, like, they were like trying to send me home and shit. And so, um, I was like, fuck this place man. I don’t mind taking my panties off. But then like, and then like that same, like that same day, a customer came over to me and was like, you know, you’re a really great dancer, but I can’t see your vagina hole when you move like that.
And I’m like, you didn’t even gimme any money. For anything.
Maedb: Wow. Like the audacity.
AMD: Why am I gonna show you my hole for nothing? Like come up to the stage and gimme money and I’ll show you my hole. I know how this works, you know? But I was like, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t. I gotta do something new. So I [00:31:00] didn’t even notice it was fine.
Maedb: Wow.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: Yeah. No, that makes sense. This, that’s how it is here. You don’t get paid for stage shows. Only this,
AMD: I know. I’ve heard.
Maedb: Have you heard?
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: There’s like a East London strip pub that is underground that I used to work at. And you get a pound in the pot each time someone does dance.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: Which is like, at least you’re doing something.
Something.
AMD: Yeah. Yeah. So you don’t, did you work in the clubs at all? Or just for a little bit
Maedb: I did, but because of my foot, yeah, I did.
AMD: But your foot
Maedb: I, when I was 23, but because of my foot, I found it very hard to be in pleasers. And there was one shift that I decided to like wear, like wear them. And actually it was a very chill club.
Like you could wear trainers if you wanted to. Um, but it was just too hard on my foot and I went on stage and then afterwards I was in like so much pain and I had my foot elevated and I was like, this is not for me. No. And so, yeah, so that made it difficult. And also I’m just not a great stripper.
AMD: Okay.
Maedb: I have a lot of respect for purpose.
Like I was also very [00:32:00] young and so people pleasing a lot and finding it hard to know like, okay, should we go for dance now? Um, and just like sitting there for a while. Uh, yeah, I prefer to like show up somewhere and know how much I’m gonna get and then leave. Uh, I found that other forms of sex work were better paid as well.
AMD: Okay. That makes sense. I bet it is.
Maedb: Yeah. Yeah, because I’ve done other forms of sex work and been like, this is great. Actually. This is a lot of money for a lot less work.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: Yeah. I think Mo, yeah, I think most people start off. Strippers and then they like dip their toes and slowly and try more. Whereas like I was the opposite.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: Um, and so I was like, oh, I’m fine with doing.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: Other stuff is actually kind of long to like convince also, like I found guys so rude, like this guy being like, okay, so I want your tits on her body. And I’m like, okay, great. You literally have a beer belly in your boarding, but Sure.
AMD: Disgusting. I know.
Isn’t it always the grossest ones that try to tell you how to look better? It’s like get a life. Yeah. So wild. Yeah, no, [00:33:00] I, um, yeah, stripping was great and I think that if, if I had lost my foot sooner, I would have, you know, also not, ’cause it’s, it was also really hard, even when I just had the half foot, I tried to wear stripper shoes and it was just so painful.
So I totally get you. Yeah. Yeah.
Maedb: Yeah, yeah. No, definitely. Um, could you tell us a little bit about, is it Strippers United that you helped start?
AMD: Yeah. Yes, yes. Strippers
United was formed, um, in 2018, actually the same month as my accident. And, um, yeah, so I, I can,
Maedb: my accident was in 2014.
AMD: Oh really?
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: No, it was 18.
I said 18.
Maedb: Oh, 18. Yeah.
AMD: Yeah, yeah.
Maedb: Okay, cool.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: Um, and, uh. I didn’t really, I only like barely had known about them. And then I had the accident and then I was like, after the accident I was like, okay, well I got, I don’t know what I’m gonna do, so [00:34:00] might as well hang out with strippers who were taking action, I guess.
’cause I know a lot about what’s happening in these clubs. And so, um, then I joined and then the, uh, two original founders left. And then it was me and the other original founder. And then we just like, from there, like we just started building and people joined and. So we’ve been going strong since like 2019.
Um, we had a huge reckoning in 2020. There was a lot of, uh, confronting our white supremacy, um, dismantling that, having, you know, a lot of talks around that. Um, it even led to our name change. We originally called Soldiers of Pole and we changed our name to Strippers United. All of the members got to vote.
We restructured everything. We took, you know, white leadership removed them from that higher roles and had our black, indigenous and people of color step into leadership roles. Um, and just like reformatted the whole thing in 2020. And then we filed as a 501(c)(3), which is the paperwork that I did. [00:35:00] It was my first time.
I would’ve done things differently, what I know now, but it took like a really long time. And it was also the pandemic and I also had had my leg cut off during the pandemic, and I was building Strippers United, helping with all of this change, um, and filing all this paperwork while also healing from an amputation.
Um, so, and, and then
Maedb: Wow. Superwoman,
AMD: uh, yeah, but like. I don’t know. I should have taken a break, but I, I mean, I don’t know. It was a pandemic. What else was I gonna do? You know, actually I actually just wrote a piece. Um, it just came out, um, on the Black Sex Worker Collective website, thebswc.org, and I tell the whole story about how I was actively organizing with Strippers United, volunteering with the Black Sex Worker Collective, and doing the podcast all during the pandemic, whilst also having my leg amputated.
So. Yeah. And so strippers.
Maedb: Wow.
AMD: Yeah. Strippers United became really, um, busy during the pandemic [00:36:00] because everyone lost their jobs, you know, temporarily. So we had to figure out how can we get these strippers unemployment, even though they’re not classified as employees. And so that’s what we went really hard on to do.
And, um, we got some people unemployment or helped people get unemployment and some people not, um. But yeah, it’s, we also helped clubs, unionize. We helped the Star Garden in North Hollywood unionize. That was that huge campaign that was going on in 2022, I think. 2023.
Maedb: Mm-hmm.
AMD: Not that long ago. Have you, did you hear about that one?
Maedb: Uh, I’ve heard about strippers. Unionizing in la Is it related to that?
AMD: Yeah. Same one. North Hollywood, Los Angeles. Yeah.
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: Um, yeah, so we help them do that and so, uh, yeah, we, we work a lot on the legal side of things when it comes to, um, strippers and getting fired or, you know, we’ve worked with government organizations like try to help them understand like, um, the health [00:37:00] organization that we work with and we try to help them understand stuff and.
You know, they’re, they did their best. They’re doing their best, they’re doing good, but they still have, you know, they still struggle with their own whorephobia and stuff like that, so.
Maedb: Oh, really? In what way? The people that you’re dealing with.
AMD: Yeah. Yeah. Like, so like a health inspector will come in because like, let’s say a stripper made a claim about like, you know, the bathroom is disgusting.
Like the drains are always backed up and there’s shit water in the bathroom, right? And so then the, the health inspector will come and they’ll, but they’ll like make comments about the strippers to the strippers behind the stripper’s back and like just derogatory or making fun or thinking that it’s a joke that we have health problems, like just not taking it seriously because, you know, we’re strippers.
So it like, doesn’t matter if we’re walking around in shit water, you know what I mean? It’s kind of like that. So we worked with them to help them, like you have to train your people to like not treat legitimate. I mean, all workers are legitimate, [00:38:00] but when we’re working in a, in a, in a legal establishment where you know you’re supposed to operate as professionals and you’re just like treating these people like we’re treating us like garbage just like everybody else.
It’s like, so who we have no, it feels like we have no one to turn to at times, you know?
Maedb: Yeah, no, definitely. It’s crazy. Yeah. Uh, me and my friend tried to do a referral for a sex worker we know they’re struggling with addiction and the, the people who sent us back an email being like, sorry, we can’t help, but here’s, um, an article on women that need help from exploitation.
And it’s like, this really isn’t what we were asking.
AMD: That was an article. And so they wouldn’t take your friend because they’re a sex worker?
Maedb: No, I dunno. Yeah, that’s just, they replied so potentially.
AMD: Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t, it’s so funny ’cause like, I, I, it’s so shocking to me when those things happen because I view us all as like, just people, like everyone else, you know? And I, I say yeah, and I just kind of [00:39:00] forget that other people don’t view us that way. ’cause I’m just like, I’m like up, for instance, I’m looking at you and like you’re beautiful and wonderful and lovely and intelligent and have so much to offer this world and like, I think nothing less of you than who you are, you know, but someone opposite of me would, you know, look at you and me and be like, oh, you’re like ruining the fabric of society and you should go burn in hell. You know, like literally I’d been told that I’ll, I should go burn in hell before, like multiple times that’s been said to me.
And so I’m like, I don’t what? I’m so nice.
Maedb: Yeah, it doesn’t compute.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: People lose like complete respect for you if they know you’re a sex worker. And I think that translated a lot to my relationships when I was younger and dating. I just wouldn’t tell people because I’m like, you, the way you change me is gonna, the way you treat me is gonna change so quickly.
AMD: Mm-hmm.
Maedb: And there was a guy I went on a date with, uh, from field who was a standup comedian, and he actually, after a date, sent me a sketch that he made [00:40:00] and it was like five things. Yeah, precisely. It was like five things to say when she tells you, um, she’s a prostitute. And then it literally was like, what does your mother think?
And it literally ended with your a whore. And I was like. Oh my God.
AMD: And he thought this was funny,
Maedb: just being on the phone.
AMD: He thought it was funny?
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: And he thought, you thought it was initially that you would think it’s funny?
Maedb: I don’t know. And then I blocked him and then he, of course I blocked him on WhatsApp and then he, I messaged me and was like, oh, uh, why did you block me?
And I’m like, are you fucking stupid?
AMD: What the fuck? Yeah.
Maedb: But he must have just been trying to like, I think these people genuinely hate us though. And like obviously he just wants to hurt me.
AMD: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maedb: I guess maybe we could end on like cross border solidarity. Like how can we support each other?
AMD: Yeah. That’s how, how can we support each other across the pond, across borders. Um, I think, you know, for me the biggest thing is when I see y’all post stuff like, um.
Uh, Scotland is doing this and we need to [00:41:00] tell our PMs about it, and we need to write in and we need to do X, Y, and z. I get confused, like, I’m like, as an American citizen, does it, like, does that matter if I do that, does that make a difference? Like, is that something that I should do? Can you fill me in there?
Maedb: Yeah, I think it would be helpful.
AMD: Okay.
Maedb: There’s a way to cheat the system. It’s just putting in a Scottish postcode. Uh.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: ’cause even people that aren’t in Scotland, it’s helpful if we all do it. They just, you know, um, power in numbers.
AMD: Okay. So I didn’t think about that. So you don’t wanna necessarily say like, I’m from Utah and I disagree.
Maedb: Yes.
AMD: Got it.
Maedb: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. What are some ways that like as a London based sex worker organization, we can support your organization, for example.
AMD: Yeah, I mean, I guess like kind of the same way, like when there’s calls to actions, I didn’t even consider changing or [00:42:00] saying like, I’m from somewhere.
I’m from there. But yeah, same, samsies. Um, and then I think, you know, what I’ve noticed is that like. We really need to engage with each other on social media.
Maedb: Mm-hmm.
AMD: Even if it’s just like, so, like for me, when I go to engage, ’cause I engage for a few reasons. One, I wanna support everyone. I also wanna build, you know, trust and visibility in the community.
Maedb: Mm-hmm.
AMD: And also it helps my algorithm. So if I’m out there Yeah, yeah. If I’m out there like commenting on your post. Um, and reposting or sharing in stories and all that, just saving all that jazz, that helps my algorithm as well as yours, right? And so,
Maedb: yes, definitely.
AMD: Yeah. So I really try to, like, when I post I, I’m not doing it as much right now.
Someone else is doing it. For us. ’cause it’s, it actually, it takes a lot of mental, like you gotta scroll through, figure out what to say,
Maedb: oh my gosh,
AMD: [00:43:00] figure, you know, figure out like, is this a post that I should be commenting on or not based on whatever, whatever the political, you know, agenda it has. And um, so it does take time, which a lot of us, I feel like we don’t have.
Maedb: Right.
AMD: But it does.
Maedb: Yeah. Right.
AMD: It helps us all. So I would say like, can you guys like, comment on our posts? Like
Maedb: Yeah, of course.
AMD: Like five and, and, and the, here’s the thing. It should be five words or more because
Maedb: Oh, wow. I did not know that.
AMD: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Maedb: So, so like the little emojis aren’t helping, right?
AMD: Emojis aren’t helping or like. If you’re just like, this is rad. Like that’s not helping, you know? It is in that I’m gaining feedback, right?
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: It’s not helping my algorithm, but it, it, and it also like, also it makes me feel good knowing that the community is like looking at what we’re doing. Because like otherwise, if, if people aren’t engaging, then what am I doing?
And the other reason we need to help each other engage is [00:44:00] ’cause like all of our algorithms are fucked up. Like they’re all screwy because the internet hates us, so we have to help each other rise, you know?
Maedb: Yeah, 100%. I was literally just about to say, the internet hates us and you beat me to it. It really does, and it’s really scary and precarious existing online.
AMD: I, I would say engaging on, on Insta. Um. On social media and, uh, you know, following each other on all the social medias.
Like we now have a Blue Sky account. We’re active on Twitter. I really trying on TikTok. I really don’t like TikTok, but I’m really trying,
Maedb: my God need to diversify. The social media is so hard. Mm.
AMD: It is so hard. It really is. So, um, but I figured out like a strategy right? For each one and for each thing. And so it feels a little better.
Um. And then what else? Let’s see. How else can we help each other? Uh, I think, you know, by having more conversations like this, honestly, I, I don’t know how many of us talk [00:45:00] across borders, but I mean, I work with people in Canada and Kenya and Berlin, in London. You’re not the only one that I work with in the UK.
I just did an interview in with New Zealand. I talked to people in Australia, like I’m like all over the globe because
Maedb: you’re international.
AMD: Definitely because sex work is a global issue. Like the issues that we deal with, they’re, they’re all global. It’s happening and, and to varying degrees of good and bad all over the world, you know?
Um. Yeah, so I would say just like, let’s pay attention to what’s going on, because then these, these countries, like Sweden, they make these laws and then the other countries are like, oh, that sounds like a good idea. We should try that too. You know? So I think that if you’re like, well, I don’t live in that country, that’s not gonna affect me that much right now.
Right now,
Maedb: yeah.
AMD: In this moment it’s not going to affect you. But five years from now it might.
Maedb: Yeah. A hundred [00:46:00] percent and we’re all united by the same stigma that is associated with sex work. Even if the laws are different. Even if our experiences are different, that’s the one,
AMD: yeah.
Maedb: constant that probably isn’t gonna differ that much.
AMD: Yeah. ’cause religion is everywhere and it’s
Maedb: Yes, definitely
AMD: religion, that is our number one foe. That’s, yes, a
Maedb: hundred percent. Did you grow up religious?
AMD: No, I didn’t. I boycotted that shit when I was like 10 years old. I was like, this is not for me..
Maedb: Like I’m out.
AMD: I’m not doing this. Yeah, but no, but I’ve seen enough.
Of like, and I from, and to answer your question, like why are we so afraid of sex? It’s not, even if you’re religious, I don’t think that you’re afraid of sex because you’re religious. I think we’re afraid of sex because of religion in general because it’s done such a good job of conditioning us. And um, you know, the messaging over the years and like a lot of people like me, I didn’t grow up [00:47:00] religious, but I grew up around religious people, my grandparents,
Maedb: yeah.
Yeah,
AMD: and my, none of my aunts and uncles are religious, but they still have that conditioning and messaging in their head, so I’ve had to teach them a lot about sex work. Not as much as I’d like, but
Maedb: Wow.
AMD: I don’t know.
Maedb: That’s So your grandparents know about your, oh no. They’re long dead. No, no, no. They don’t know.
No, no, no, no. My aunts and uncles know, though.
AMD: Oh, your aunts and aunt?
Maedb: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
AMD: No, my grandparents, my grandfather is. Really dead, which is great because I, he wouldn’t have been able to handle it, you know?
Maedb: Yeah, same. No, my mom’s dad died when I was like five. Yeah. And he was very religious, so definitely wouldn’t be able to handle it.
Um, how have your aunt, how have your aunts and uncles taken it?
AMD: They’re, they do really well. They do really well because I first showed them pole dancing and then help them understand like, this is what I [00:48:00] do. And then it was like, okay, now this, you know, it’s like baby stepping them into you know, understanding And, um, they don’t, they don’t say really much about it.
They don’t even really ask me much about my work. Um, but they don’t talk shit. They don’t gimme a hard time. Um, and also my brother just married a stripper. So now we have two strippers in the family. Yeah.
Maedb: I love that.
AMD: Yeah, I know. I love it too. So like everyone is like, chill about it and I’m, I’m very lucky, um, that I’ve experienced that.
Yeah. Because I know, and I have a very big family too. Both, both my sets of grandparents had seven children.
Maedb: Wow.
AMD: Like so many babies. Yeah. And so, um, I’m really, really lucky that I didn’t get, yeah, kicked outta the family, which I know that’s what happens to some people. So, um,
Maedb: definitely.
AMD: Yeah. And they’re getting there.
Some of them know that I’ve had money or [00:49:00] sex for money, very few, but they’re like, whatever, you know, they just don’t care because they, because they know me as the person, right. That their whole lives, they’ve known me as the person, so.
Maedb: Yeah. That’s the attitude most people should have, but I think some people are still slightly weird about it.
AMD: Mm-hmm.
Maedb: My family are like, my mom. My mom really changes. Like she knows about sex exquisite, um, but often will be like, oh, it’s so good you’re working with these poor women. And like, even though she knows everything, but she’s just a bit deluded, you know, like she’s just living in her own world for protection.
And we did an interview with ITVA couple of years ago for a Sex Worker Pride event and, uh. I told her about it and she was like, I hated when you were saying it’s like about we and us. And I was like, okay. So it’s a bit annoying sometimes. Yeah. You know, I feel like I’m doing a lot with the sex work community and making some real change in the uk, it’s annoying that I can’t share that with my family or I hear that.
AMD: What’s your event? Can we close talking about that? That’s not- BBC, that’s a huge deal.
Maedb: Yeah. Well, so ba, it was just that we’ve [00:50:00] been doing a program of events for Sex Worker Pride, which Sex Worker Pride was coined by the Global Network of Sex Work Projects on the 14th of September.
AMD: Mm-hmm.
Maedb: Um, we’ve been doing like cabaret events for years, but this year I put together a program of 10 events which took place in Free Cities. We had a panel talk with sex worker photographers. We had a sex exquisite show in London, a sex exquisite show in Bristol, and then we collaborated with Bristol Sex Workers Collective who did a popup dance pit.
I dunno if you know anything about Bristol, but all of the feminist mps there have been fighting to close down the club. So it was a bit of a rebellion. I’m about that to put on like a cooperative space where dancers earn their own money. We weren’t allowed to do lap dances, but we were just trying to bend the rules and that was ama, that’s the event that BBC covered.
AMD: Nice.
Maedb: And then, yeah, yeah, done a few other like king adjacent sex worker events with Riot Party, which is something else that I co-run. And so yeah, I’m really proud of it and it’s been amazing and so many people have come out for it, which is cool [00:51:00] because I think some people, uh, raised concerns to me before they were like, sex work isn’t a marginalization you’re born with, so should, so should you be doing a pride?
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: And um, which is like something fair to consider. Sure. But I think in a world where there is so much stigma and shame and we’re denied access to housing, we experienced financial discrimination. Uh, we’re isolated from our families, our children are taken off us. The list goes on, right?
AMD: Mm-hmm.
Maedb: That I think we do need a pride.
AMD: Yeah, definitely. Because even if you’re not born into sex work, into a margin marginalized space, you choose it maybe because of other marginalizations you’re dealing with, maybe you’re disabled, maybe you’re poor, you know?
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: Maybe this and that. Um. Maybe racial hiring practices at other places, you know what I mean?
So there’s a reason that we go into it. And so I, that is a fair question, but like, I, I [00:52:00] kind of disagree with though, ’cause like, I think
Maedb: Yeah,
AMD: yeah,
Maedb: likewise.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: I shared it with my friend and she was like, well, class is something that you’re born into and you can’t really change that. And I was like, yeah, that’s very true.
Exactly what you’re saying. Like if you’re poor, right? Yeah.
AMD: Right. Interesting. Well, that’s How do you navigate that? Or if you, yeah.
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: Yeah.
Maedb: If you didn’t, are there any sex worker Pride celebrations in the us?
AMD: I, I, none that I can really like think of there has to be though. Maybe I just haven’t been involved with.
Maedb: You should do something.
AMD: Yeah. Maybe I’m being ignorant and I’m, and I’m not thinking fast enough. Um, but I feel like we have, we’ve had a lot of marches, like stripper, stripper strikes and stripper marches.
Um, but yeah, I don’t think we’ve, I can’t think of like a sex worker pri if we have, they’re smaller. Yeah.
Maedb: Yeah.
AMD: But yeah. But yeah, maybe we should think about doing something.
Maedb: You should do one. It’s to, it probably won’t be allowed into the US otherwise I’d say let’s collaborate.
AMD: [00:53:00] Yeah. Yeah. I’m always down to collaborate.
FYI. Anyone listening? Yeah. Oh yeah. We have to. We have to work together. Yeah.
Maedb: Yeah. It’s definitely, and to close, what is the dream future that you imagine for sex worker rights in 10 years?
AMD: Oh my God. Okay, that everything is decriminalized.
Maedb: Mm-hmm.
AMD: That we’re able to report assaults and other harms done to us like theft.
Um. And discrimination that we’re able to report those things and that we’re listened to. Um, and that, uh, there’s safe spaces for people to do the work, more safe spaces to be able to be protected doing the work and that everyone, nobody has whorephobia and that everybody, yeah. I mean this is like a huge fantasy that everyone is just as fine with me being a sex worker if they were, if I was a farmer,
Maedb: yes.
Definitely.
AMD: Or if I were working in an office, like, no [00:54:00] question, no, no worries, no concerns. Just support and like, oh, that’s great that that’s your job. You know, like just like any other job.
Maedb: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. How about you and for sex work to be like a protected identity that you can’t discriminate against someone for being a sex worker.
That would be really cool.
AMD: Mm-hmm. To see that written into law.
Maedb: Yeah. So we’re not denied housing. We can, you know, you were talking about having like a resume gap earlier. Yeah. Uh, but the, like, the fact is you were working and you had so many transferable skills that Totally. You just sadly can’t put on TVs.
And so a world where we can is. Say like I was a sex worker and here’s everything that I did, and put that on a cv.
AMD: Yeah, absolutely. That was a good addition, Yas.
Maedb: Amazing. Thank you so much for joining me and yeah, I hope you have a lovely evening. Thank you. You as well. Thank you for everything.