YAS Podcast: Rebecca Crow #17 Transcript
This call is one from across the pond. Two like souls getting together over Zoom, listen to Rebecca (aka KatsAndCrows) and AM talk about activism. These two have bonded over actions taken through the movement of EveryBodyVisible, an activist group that protests discriminatory practices by social media giants. Rebecca is fierce, bold and fearless but shows us her vulnerable side as well. Both women commiserate over the difficulties in dating life.
*This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* Begin transcript after opening credits.
AMD: Hey there and welcome to another episode of Yes, a Stripper podcast. We’re still quarantined. I am in my bedroom. It’s pretty sexy in here though, I’m not going to lie. So there’s no better place in my house to be with me than my bedroom. And today I want to talk about solidarity.
I’ve noticed that during this time that people have been coming together more and more and really supporting each other and supporting causes that they care about and supporting people and different classes of people that they care about or that they’re being introduced to. ⁓ it’s been really beautiful. We’ve been working for strippers and trying to raise money for them. But what I wanted to really mention about solidarity is that
⁓ I’d like to see solidarity happening in all eras of life and not just during coronavirus. Will you remain in solidarity when this is over and life goes back to normal? Were you in solidarity with these people before all of this happened? If you weren’t, that’s okay if you became woke to the idea of connecting with people.
But I’d like to make sure and almost challenge you to remain connected and to remain connected with issues that you see happening because it’s more and more apparent right now about how much drama sex workers are going through as far as discrimination via the government specifically. ⁓ But we’ve been having issues for a hell of a long time and a lot of people weren’t paying attention.
So now that you can see it more clearly, I’m going to ask you, will you remain in solidarity with us when this is over? Because our plight is not over. And this is a lifetime long work thing that we have to do. And our next guest on the show with us today is Rebecca, AKA Katz and Crows. And she’s a super solidarity stripper sex worker person.
Crow (03:33)
a key. It is.
AMD (03:42)
Rebecca, can you please say hello to everybody?
Crow (03:44)
Hi everyone, how’s it going?
AMD (03:48)
yeah, you know, I just really had to get that thought out because ever since I discovered you on Instagram, it’s like all I see coming from you besides like obvious sex stuff, which is like, like, it was out of you. ⁓ Your tenacity for being a voice for people who need to be heard.
Crow (04:04)
It just oozes Yeah, that’s something that’s just really a core value for me. It’s always been with me ever since I was in school. If something I see isn’t right or doesn’t sit right with me, then I have to say something. Even during the lockdown, a few of my friends have been breaking lockdown and I’ve been the first person to call them out because it’s for the good of everyone, it’s make stuff worse.
AMD (04:36)
Yeah, yeah. you know? Because like, I’m very similar. You know, when I was at work, when I was dancing and I would be in the dressing room, I would always be like, well, this isn’t right. someone has to do something about it.
So where do you think that comes from? Like is that just something that we just like wake up with one day or have we been conditioned like for me I don’t honestly know where it comes from. Do you have any idea of why you are?
Crow (05:10)
not so sure. I’ve been doing a lot of introspective work since lockdown as well. I’ve been thinking a lot about myself, where my personality comes from. And as a kid, I guess I had to compete a lot for attention with my brother because he’s autistic. So I’ve always been very like, me, you know, look at me. But then I guess the righteousness, I don’t know where that comes from. It’s always been there.
AMD (05:31)
Yeah.
Crow (05:38)
Even when I was like a nerdy kid and I played video games, always pick like the goody side. It’s always just been in me. I’m not saying that I don’t break laws because laws are definitely not a guide for morality, but I definitely have a very strong moral compass. And I guess it comes maybe from the experiences we’ve had. Perhaps we’ve suffered injustices. ⁓ You know? I feel like that’s the only place I could bring it from consciously.
AMD (05:59)
Yeah.
Yeah, and maybe it’s like a combination of being very like, hello, I’m here and mixed with the experiences we’ve had because there’s plenty of sex workers who I’m fine over here keeping my head.
Crow (06:18)
I know plenty of introverts.
AMD (06:21)
Yeah, yeah, not introverted at all. I’m like me
Crow (06:24)
Neither. I can’t help myself. I just exist. I’m there. I happen at you.
AMD (06:29)
Yeah.
Do you consider yourself a stripper and or a sex worker?
Crow (06:35)
I consider myself a sex worker. I guess I’ve done so many roles within sex work. Stripping was actually my first sex work job. The second I turned 18, was like, Strip-Lyn, there’s money. I can make money there. I love money. Straight away. like in my own way, I thought I was working for myself. Obviously now I realize the exploitation that goes on in clubs is insane. But yeah, it was pure freedom for me. So yeah, straight away I went to stripping and now I consider myself just a
AMD (06:47)
Yeah.
Crow (07:05)
for all of the sex worker.
AMD (07:06)
a broad sex worker. it. oh my god, I so many questions for you. You, I want to talk about what happens, how your deal is on social media. Right. I mean, I know your story because, you know, I’m one of the leaders of Everybody Visible and we’ve done work together, which is incredible. Love it. Yeah, but let’s, before we get into like what you, the amazing work you did in London that one day, let’s talk about what the
Crow (07:36)
BREAK
AMD (07:36)
keeps happening to your social media accounts. You can’t it. How many times has your account been deleted?
Crow (07:43)
My original Instagram at Katzen Kroos has been deleted seven times. It was reinstated six times, which was crazy. But it followed such a distinctive weird pattern. It would go down for a few weeks, come back and then disappear again for about half a day and come back. And that happened like three times. And I was like, this is weird. And it always happened at coincidental times, directly after the protest, directly after I’d posted a video that exposed something.
So yeah, that’s one of the crazy things that’s been going on with my personal account. Obviously the problem is much wider than that.
AMD (08:16)
Yeah. How many followers. Did you have when you’re the first time your account was like ⁓
Crow (08:22)
It was one of my greatest achievements and although now I feel like I’m free from my account because it was so high I was really proud. got it all the way to 725,000 followers. I think it’s max Yeah, I could hit a mill if I’d carried on I was yeah
AMD (08:35)
Dude, that’s incredible. That’s incredible. did you feel like, because you kind of made a comment, so I’m wondering now, did you feel sort of like ⁓ a huge responsibility to such a large account?
Crow (08:50)
So much. Not so much in the way that I had a responsibility to be a certain way, but I felt like I had to post every day to keep my engagement up. my account was heavily shitty, but so it was just stress. know, every post had to be as good as the last one and I had to post every day. And now I don’t, sometimes I don’t post for days and my mental health is so much worse.
AMD (09:13)
Really, that’s so good to know and good to hear for people to hear because there’s this this strive to be in Stephanie Miss, right? But then like you said, your mental health, like can you talk a little bit about why that would kind of mess with your mental health?
Crow (09:16)
Mm-hmm.
I linked in my productivity with my mental health. ⁓ So even if I was having a bad mental health day, I would make myself make a video about that. whilst it was kind of cathartic in a way, for me, I was using it as a bit of a crutch. I used people’s like sympathies as a way to soothe my pain rather than face any problem I had in my head.
like that huge amount of followers for me was literally like my safety blanket that I would surround myself with rather than deal with my problems. So I guess striving for that on social media is what people want. They want the love and affection to kind of cover up the problems and soothe their pain, which is totally understandable. But it’s pure distraction. It’s a pure dopamine hit, hit. You’re sat there not thinking, you’re not using your mind in the way that we used to before social media. So that’s the way I think social media damages people.
AMD (10:27)
Did you notice that before losing your account or after?
Crow (10:33)
I began to realize, I think, when it started going wrong and I started really thinking about my relationship with it. Because when I didn’t have it, it would be sometimes weeks at a time and I would notice that I would get calmer, I suppose. Or at least when my agro-insuscibe and I started caring less about maintaining my account and more about revealing the truth, I felt more free. I was like, I can just post a screenshot of my Twitter account. It’s going to get no likes. Round of give a fuck because at least I’ll be doing something progressive rather than just chasing lights.
AMD (11:06)
Right, wow. I think it’s really important for people to hear because we all want a million followers.
Crow (11:14)
It would be cool, like it would be really, cool. And it’s great for business too, like you can’t lie. It’s a huge business tool.
AMD (11:20)
Totally, totally. So this all happened, then you know, Everybody Visible happened. The work that we did is basically, and I’m just gonna let the audience know, and I know you know this, ⁓ Everybody Visible was an activism campaign to protest the discrimination of social media executives towards anyone that’s different LGBTQ people of color ⁓ sex workers the big beautiful women community ⁓
Crow (11:57)
as communities, fetish communities, artists. Yeah, so many.
AMD (12:04)
Yeah, so many people, anyone who’s different basically. And we protested on October 29th of 2019. Doesn’t it feel like much longer ago that that happened?
Crow (12:18)
that recent. So much has happened though. So much has happened.
AMD (12:23)
Totally. So, Everybody Visible, October 29th, we protest, we tag all these executives on Instagram, ⁓ and to make the point and to tell all of these stories. And you were one of those stories that we ended up featuring and telling. But you took things one step further. Why don’t you just tell the story? What did you do recently in London with a group of people and a megaphone?
Crow (12:51)
It’s happened twice now. guess first after my account was deleted in May 2019, I held the first protest in London outside of Instagram’s headquarters. It was definitely the Instagram headquarters. made and checked everything beforehand. I did loads of kind of edging on creepy, investigating work, but I wanted to make sure it was right. And I really, really wanted basically just to have a meeting with Instagram. I believe truly that
They sincerely didn’t understand the cause. It was just a miscommunication. And if we opened up a line of communication, then we could fix all the problems. So we turned up, we requested a meeting. It’s a friendly protest. It’s got hella sex workers. Everyone’s running around in their Pee-sers and it’s nice weather. So everyone’s wearing harnesses and paces and everyone looks great in this glitter and cake and sandwiches. And it’s kind of like a party outside of the Instagram page queue. And I got a megaphone.
We’re chanting, we’re getting all the public involved. It’s wild. And instead of any kind of acknowledgement or even a human humanity, show of humanity, they hire extra security, they blockade the building doors, they stop any of their in-staff coming in and out of the building, they stop us coming in and out of the building. They just point blank kind of refuse to acknowledge our existence, which is obviously a repetitive pattern in sex work.
history, ⁓ people try and pretend that we don’t exist. So I held another protest outside of the headquarters again. Yeah, this time it was in the winter. Unfortunately, it wasn’t as well attended because it was raining. ⁓ But we managed to get inside the office this time with the help of my union, which is the United Strippers of the World, I believe. think they’re only UK based at the moment. Yes. But we managed to get inside. We did some great press and stuff, which led me up to my fundraiser campaign to raise money to actually take Instagram as a company to court. Unfortunately that’s on hold right now because of all the COVID-19 stuff but that’s pretty much where the story’s up too.
AMD (14:58)
Did you begin, like did the fundraising part start?
Crow (15:02)
It did, it did just as ⁓ let down I think began. So lesbians lost their jobs and also the sex workers obviously couldn’t work because of social distancing and a ton of hardship funds due to the lack of funding and help from the governments and I didn’t want to be taking money that would be people would be choosing to either give to that fund or my fund. couldn’t possibly live with the decision you know it’s saving people’s lives.
AMD (15:26)
Yeah, okay, so when that kicks back in, let me know.
Crow (15:31)
100 % well, I’m gonna get everybody I think a lot of people will be more in line with our cause then because let’s face it you’re lockdown everybody’s started an only fans, right and Everyone will now experience the discrimination from trying to advertise their only fans on Instagram I think it’s gonna be much more wider publicized by the time
AMD (15:50)
Yeah, I mean, there definitely is a silver lining to this bullshit. And that is, and that’s kind of what I was talking about in the beginning. It’s like, you’ve seen like the blatant discrimination and disregard for our work. I would like to use an example of the young woman who got fired from a Honda dealership recently. She started an OnlyFans account and her coworkers were watching her.
Crow (16:10)
because Soda.
AMD (16:18)
probably having sex or doing something sexual on her OnlyFans account at work and then that and she got fired because they were watching first of all you shouldn’t be watching any sex shit at work any
Crow (16:31)
Where the consumer don’t products at work you don’t drink a lot of work, right?
AMD (16:35)
and especially not of your coworkers.
Crow (16:38)
No, that’s also creepy.
AMD (16:40)
It’s creepy, it’s weird, it’s rude, and then she gets fired. And so that story went really viral for about 24 hours. And then a bunch of people made Yelp reviews. I made a Yelp review. so the car dealership’s like in Indiana or some shit like that. I’m like, I’ve never been there. But I’m like, I will never go to this dealership.
Crow (17:06)
Good! I mean that’s our weapons right now. Why not? They’re weaponizing the internet against us so we’ll weaponize it right back against you. In any way we can.
AMD (17:14)
Totally. what I started to, what I saw too, and like the tweets and stuff, it’s like people who I didn’t seem like they’re not sex workers. Like a lot of white men actually are like, what? Like, you know, and they’re the ones, I’ve said this before, white men are the ones that really need their minds changed to win this battle because they’re leading the charge against us. they assume
Crow (17:39)
Yeah.
AMD (17:43)
sex, services and products more than anybody else.
Crow (17:44)
Kurt. It’s the bizarrest paradox. There’s no other adult industry where the consumers are also campaigning for the shutdown. Not in gambling, not in drinking, not in drugs. Sex work is the only place where people consume and also campaign for the censorship world. No! It’s bizar?
AMD (18:03)
Yeah, you’re right. No one’s like, should stop gambling forever gambling. Yeah. Right. They’re like, that’s fine, dude. Yeah. Right. I think it’s fine if you want to gamble. I don’t see what’s wrong.
Crow (18:10)
And then they’re gambling. I see the problem. You can do it. Don’t think you can risk your life risk your money risk your whatever you want to destroy into freedom, right?
AMD (18:25)
Right, right. So, okay, so it’s a circle back. So this is becoming very apparent. And so maybe, yeah, hopefully maybe. And that’s why I was like, are you going to stay in solidarity with us? Because our problems aren’t going away. just… Yeah. Yeah.
Crow (18:37)
No way. 100%. I’ve seen much like, horror phobia, especially from people that are now entering the sex work industry. Because I thought I would see more, but people have been surprisingly open-minded about it. Yeah.
AMD (18:54)
I’ve seen more too and I wonder if it’s because and this is what I slightly wonder and worry about if they’re like well you got to do what you got to do right now you know and so if when things go back to normal will it be like well I mean like there’s job opportunities now like what are why are you still doing that like will that happen
Crow (19:17)
so they’re not viewing it as actual genuine employment.
AMD (19:20)
I don’t know. don’t know. Like how many times have you been at a place or at work and somebody says to you, you’re too, why are you here? You’re too.
Crow (19:28)
What’s your real job? What’s your day job or something? Yeah, they’re like, what else do you do? I’m like, this is my job. Well, my house with this job, is that okay? You see my taxes? It’s wild. It’s really bizarre how people still love you as real employment.
AMD (19:35)
Yeah, and I don’t know, so I was on this conference call with these sex worker advocates the other day, and there was a woman on there who has been doing this work for like decades, And I’m looking at her going, yes bitch, you are my future. I will be you. Wrinkly and all.
Crow (19:59)
Right.
Love, that’s what I want from my life. I just want to be free.
AMD (20:13)
Yeah, but still doing this work and it’s like how long, how much longer do we have to do this before you get it?
Crow (20:22)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, literally they’ve been well, they’ve been campaigning this forever, right? And it’s it’s so it’s so upsetting to see setbacks like the explicit Notice in the US financial aid for covid aid with sex workers is written out of it. Yeah, latent Stuff like that really upsets me. I have people been reacting to it in the states because in the UK We’ve been talking about it, but I guess our influence doesn’t really
AMD (20:50)
And that’s been a slight irritant for me because I’m very like, move, move, all the time. And I understand. so like, I’m so glad you asked me this question because I just, at first I was like, we need to do everything we can. Like we need to get all the sex worker organizations together. We need to write a letter. We need to sue the administration. We need to do everything. And then my partner was like,
Crow (20:57)
Move, ⁓
AMD (21:19)
There are people though that have been doing this for a very long time and know what they’re doing. then I slowly realized, I’m like, man, like I’ve never done sex worker advocacy before. Like this is really my first time in like the last year and half. And so then I can’t just show up to the show and start stomping around, throwing my weight around. So I kind of went like this, ⁓ I just need to learn actually. Learn and I need to
Crow (21:44)
I’ll just say where.
AMD (21:47)
Yeah, and I just need to ask other organizations. How can I be of service to you? Yeah. You know, so that’s what I, I like had this aha moment yesterday on the sex worker advocacy call with Rad Mission who they are very rad and they are awesome. Have you, do you, have you heard of them? Yeah. Yeah. Look them up. Great. ⁓ well I just learned about them. So I don’t know.
Crow (21:52)
No, I haven’t, but I love the name. I love it about it.
AMD (22:15)
too much yet, but I do know that they’re working with other groups and they’re working on the legal stuff that we’re dealing with just in a different way. I’m ready to blow my load and scream at everybody, but they’re being a lot more medical and strategic about things. So yeah, so I say all that to say we have a lot of work to do and a lot of learning to do.
Crow (22:32)
Uh-huh. We do, even I, I’m the same, my advocacy or activism myself is more appropriate, it’s only been since my Instagram got deactivated, I’ve always been like a rebellious person standing up for shit, but like standing for something as a cause, as part of a cause rather than being the face of something is new to me. Sometimes I need to learn that I don’t need to be the land voice in the room.
AMD (23:02)
Yeah, and that takes so much practice, doesn’t it, for people like us. ⁓
Crow (23:05)
my god.
I’m the first person to be like, But it’s not right. It’s not always right. Yeah.
AMD (23:13)
So I want to switch gears a little bit. Something that I find extremely fascinating about you is the way you perform. ⁓ really? ⁓ yeah. You’re like Spitfire. You literally dance with fire. I think you’re fire, right?
Crow (23:28)
I just do everything with fire. Anything you think about with fire, can probably do it.
AMD (23:32)
Why fire? Tell us all about like what the deal is with your fire, how you got into it, why you like it, what, tell us everything.
Crow (23:39)
FIRE was an opportunity for me to not get a real job. ⁓ By real job I mean corporate job. I deliberately began performing and got my extremities tattooed so that I couldn’t get like a corporate job when I was 18. So FIRE was never like an artistic pursuit for me. It has become that in my journey. I’ve been doing it now for like 10 years, which is crazy because there’s some amazing fire performance that I’ve been doing it for much less time than me and then much better than me but for me it’s just it’s the best way for me to express my personality I think on stage and I am a bit of an adrenaline junkie too I definitely got an addictive personality I thrive on risk and I’m doing dumb shit I’ve been doing dumb shit since I was a kid I used to copy Jackass it was my favorite show
AMD (24:35)
That’s amazing. Do you have any footage of you doing that?
Crow (24:37)
Huh? I might too, I have videos of me standing in puddles and throwing myself off things and running into walls. It’s dumb. It’s so dumb. But I’ve always been a better, like I said, person. Like, hi.
I love crowd surfing, love moshing, I’m a real alternative girl. ⁓ I’ve had my fair share of injuries. I knocked myself out on stage one time. I have a photo.
AMD (25:01)
⁓ yeah.
You knocked yourself out? How did that happen?
Crow (25:10)
So I was doing my Harlequin burlesque and obviously Harlequin has a baseball bat and I was super tired I was day three of a stint of shows on when I was on tour in the States and I swing it around my head being like wait but I didn’t quite lift my arm up high enough so I go around once I go around twice and crack like my vision goes blurry and I get this cartoon golf ball size lump on my head I have a photo like I didn’t believe that really happened but it does apparently
AMD (25:38)
Yeah, two stars.
Crow (25:40)
I kind of just saw a blurry vision and then I just don’t remember the rest of the show but I did finish the show. I hosted the show as well, I was talking. I don’t know how. ⁓
AMD (25:49)
⁓ shit. Did anybody say that you were acting different or weirder?
Crow (25:56)
I only noticed that people kept coming and like sitting with me in my corner of the dressing room and I must have been chatting some real bullshit because I don’t remember anything and just every member of the cast kept coming and sitting with me in between their numbers and just being like, go and sit there with Rebecca and make sure she’s okay. And they get her on stage when she needs to be on stage and then take her off again. And they looked after me and they’re an awesome family. This is my suicide girl family. are the kindest, kindest human beings in the world. Yeah.
AMD (26:20)
Nice. Yeah.
Crow (26:24)
That is so great. ⁓
AMD (26:25)
I love hearing that they’re so kind because there’s a misconception that in that in the type of world that we operate in there’s a lot of competitive competitiveness and cattiness ⁓ and it’s so nice to hear that it’s like being a part of a family.
Crow (26:44)
Yeah, so much. think that’s the main thing that I think women especially latch onto for anti-sex work, is they believe that it’s a negative environment for women to exist in. And it’s really not. It’s so supportive.
AMD (26:58)
It’s so supportive. truly believe that, and I’ve had these conversations with my mom, that I’ve become a better, stronger person through the work that I’ve been doing for most of my adult life. Yeah, and I’ve learned so much about real life through being in the clubs and applying it. No, let me re-say that. I’ve learned so much in the club and have been able to apply that to real life and then proceed and thrive in real life due to the shit that I learned in the club.
Crow (27:26)
100%. So many skills. Like every sex worker I know has a multitude, a plethora of skills just randomly required through sex work, through some way. And like some really like fundamental skills as well that people don’t particularly practice nowadays, like conversational and hustle and stuff like that. Like people spend a lot of time on their phones nowadays, but I like to think I’ve still got quite good conversational skills because I literally taught myself to learn in a club, you know?
AMD (27:34)
Yeah. Yeah, we have so many hours of practice talking to people and coming up. You know how people are like, ⁓ do know how you like you say something or like you think about it later and you’re like, damn, I wish I would have said that. I’m like, that rarely happens to me now.
Crow (28:09)
said it like I said it right at the time. Yeah, I listen to every last day.
AMD (28:14)
many times I’ve been like fuck I should have said that thing fuck I should have said that thing so much in the club and now I’m like I said that thing right when the timing was right yeah it’s great
Crow (28:18)
We are Good.
It’s great. It’s powerful, dude. It’s good. We gotta use our words.
AMD (28:29)
Yeah. So
what’s your dating life like? Cause mine is really hard being out loud about how I am.
Crow (28:41)
I I’ve always tried to date other outlandish people which has never, it’s never worked out. I’m single right now. ⁓ I broke up with my boyfriend just before lockdown. It was a short term thing and I just also come out of an abusive relationship before that. So like it was wild. My dating life has been wild. think through my… I don’t know, personality is just who I am. I attract the kind of people that either want something from me or are…
as crazy as me but they’re a lot of men I think especially white men who I’ve tended to date haven’t dealt with their shit you know in the same way that women have so my dating life has been pretty wild. ⁓
AMD (29:24)
Yeah, that’s how mine was for a long time. Yeah, I was like enough because Yeah, like I had to date like bouncers and strip club managers because they get it they get me slide They still there’s issues and then
Crow (29:29)
Yeah, I’m done with it now.
Yeah, they’re still part of the patriarchal kind of systems of oppression.
AMD (29:45)
Yeah, and then forget about trying to date a normal guy because he can’t take me home to his mom because Instagram account I’m licking my titties
Crow (29:51)
No I don’t think I ever even dated, I didn’t even try to date a normal guy. I dated like musicians, tattoo artists, pro wrestlers, ⁓ get them all away from me. ⁓ get them all away.
AMD (30:05)
know it’s so sexy, there is it yeah, I know I’ve done
Crow (30:12)
That ego game is strong.
AMD (30:16)
know. So yeah, so it is it is same. It is wild and it good.
Crow (30:22)
I’m glad it’s not just me, I less alone.
AMD (30:24)
No, no, I don’t know how I feel for people and I know that there are sex workers that have amazing partners. know that. So it’s like, how do I figure that out? Yeah, so it’s literally like it’s something that I had to turn into like a part-time side job.
Crow (30:35)
100%. Yeah, it’s definitely something I’ve been working on. It takes active work to figure out your life. it’s, I guess it’s part of being a sex worker is you have to figure out how it fits into all areas of your life, like your family, your job. If you have kids and stuff, you have to have those conversations. I guess an extra layer of stuff that you’ve got to do in life, right?
AMD (31:06)
Yeah, yeah, 100%. And how do you explain to somebody who has never met somebody like us that, you know, and that’s, that’s what I wrestle with. And I’m like, either they have to get it right away from now. Yeah. Yeah. And so when I’m so I don’t know about you, but when I’m on like these dating apps now, I’m on him. I
Crow (31:28)
never use them. I always get cafes, so I’ve never used
AMD (31:31)
really like Hinge. Hinge has seemed to work out so far. I’ll give you guys an update later on that. Yeah, I’m like, would, I’ll do things like, like I posted my Instagram account on there so they could see everything right away. I posted like a picture of me smoking two joints at once. I posted, you know, like ⁓ I posted that a picture of me standing like with my pole and I’m very much like,
Crow (31:52)
Go for that.
AMD (31:59)
like a friend, like this is who I am, what I am. And I’ll say, like, I’ll ask questions and text message. if I get an answer I like, then I’ll continue. But it’s like kind of a test.
Crow (32:09)
Yeah, 100%. I’m a real boundary pusher as a person anyway. I think just because my big personality, I have to figure out quite quickly where people’s boundaries are. And it’s always the same in my job. And I feel like it’s a good opportunity to have conversations with people if they don’t agree with you either. I quite like having a debate with someone.
AMD (32:28)
Yeah. So okay, I’ll tell you. I’ll tell you what, if you tell me when do you have one that you remember. Okay.
Crow (32:33)
my god, no, probably not. No, tell me when and how.
AMD (32:36)
Yeah, I’ll say one really quick. I’m so like, I read between the lines, red flag, red flag, red flag, where other people might not see them.
Crow (32:44)
I’m a bit obsessive, yeah.
AMD (32:47)
Okay, so I’m like, you know, I mentioned like, oh yeah, in my line of work, it’s, it’s kind of hard to date. And he’s like, well, I can see that I can understand that because like, you know, I’m not a jealous person, but my ex girlfriend was a stripper. And like, that work like brought out, like can bring out the worst in people like jealousy and all this other stuff. And I wrote this whole long paragraph about how the work itself, it’s not the person, it’s the work. And I’m like,
Crow (33:16)
Noooo
AMD (33:16)
Yeah, it was a really long paragraph and my response was yikes.
Crow (33:21)
Yikes! Yeah, correct, yikes! It’s scary when people put that much thought into it, especially, it’s kind of like a mansplaining but also a put down at the same time.
AMD (33:31)
Yeah, and I dated someone for seven years and we didn’t have issues because of my sex work. had issues for reasons. ⁓ so yeah, that was my one story.
Crow (33:44)
one of my exes had a small issue like they always pretend to be okay with it in the beginning but I would come home from like photo shoots like a just a photo shoot and he’d be like did you get your boobs out and I’d be like yes it’s my job it’s just so bizarre how people they slide it in Laceron
AMD (34:02)
I think that your boobs belong to only them, that they’re Yeah.
Crow (34:07)
Just because your inner emotions should melt right? It’s your body. It’s your choice. I think a lot of girls still struggle with that. It’s really sad. I have a lot of people talk to me about it, especially in like person and stuff. ⁓
AMD (34:17)
Talk to you about what, can you elaborate on that?
Crow (34:20)
like their boyfriends or trying to date while being a sex worker. People just seem to, a lot of men in the UK seem to be okay with the culture, sex with culture, they’re very activist with it. But when it comes to interacting on a personal level with sex workers, they still don’t see them on the same kind of like level as other humans.
AMD (34:45)
What suggestion would you give to a sex worker who’s experiencing slut shaming by a partner about their work? What would you advise if they asked you?
Crow (34:59)
think the problem is people, the problem people have for sex workers, any kind of misconception, and that’s what it is, it’s a misconception, ⁓ can be corrected purely by interacting with sex workers as human beings. So if your partner perhaps has a problem with your sex work, maybe introduce them to other sex workers, other sex workers who interact with other people on a human level. because people get this idea in their head that they’re the sixth crazed demon that’s gonna steal your morality and your children and something, I don’t know. But actually we’re just like actual human beings with like real lives as well. So if you start from human beings, then you’ll stop, I think, quite quickly having that stigma.
AMD (35:37)
Yeah. Yeah, totally. Well, and lastly, want to the last thing I want to ask you about is you mentioned exploitation in the strip clubs and whatnot over in the You know, I don’t know nearly as much about what’s going on in the UK clubs. I know a little bit from talking to Ivy from United.
Crow (36:01)
Yeah.
We gotta get United. She’s in my union. My episode with her comes out right now, actually today. ⁓
AMD (36:05)
United Strippers of the World.
How exciting. Send that link. ⁓ What’s going on? Can you give us like a quick rundown of like what’s really going on in the UK?
Crow (36:13)
She’s great.
So the UK club model is based, I don’t know how it is in the US, but I guess you have a really heavily explosive system where the club owners basically profit off the dancers as well as the bar as well as the entrance fee. So they charge you a house fee, you pay to work, they sometimes take commission, they can fine you for your dress, they can fine you for your behaviour, they can fine you for fucking anything, for not turning up for a shift, etc.
So it’s heavily explosive, they control everything about your shifts, your hours, your dress, literally how long until you can interact with the customer, how many drinks your customers have to buy. They control everything about you, but they class you as a self-employed worker, which means they don’t have to provide any benefits for you. They don’t have to basically support you in any way. So in the UK, this has been going on pretty much as the model of strip clubs since strip clubs have originated.
But this year, a member of our union took a strip club in London to court and won worker status. All the club rules that this club was what it was asking of its employees, its girls, was on level with worker status. So therefore they deserve the same benefits as being a worker. So the ruling was that they were workers. So, was fucking awesome. But there’s a lot of misconceptions about what that means.
There’s obviously a lot of strip clubs across the UK. We’re not all unionized at the moment It’s it’s was a lot very soon and a lot of misinformation has been spread through clubs that it’s a negative that it’s trying to take power away from the dancers It’s a similar thing to what’s going on in California. Okay, everyone’s read the first stories about that So people at the moment are bit in uprising, especially with the fact that the clubs are all now shut down Everyone’s lost their incomes. Everyone’s freaking out
⁓ So that’s kind of what’s going on right now. just trying to like nothing has actually changed, nothing will change, but that legal ruling has opened the door for a lot more people to take their clubs to court and for unions to demand more and better conditions for workers as we’ve been ruled from clubs.
AMD (38:29)
Okay, well, the wheels are in motion, it sounds like.
Crow (38:33)
That’s right, it is. It’s just we gotta join up, guys. Come on, we gotta be on this team.
AMD (38:41)
Yeah, we have to glom together.
Crow (38:44)
We all want the same thing. It’s just all the big people are turning us against each other and it’s usually the club bosses.
AMD (38:51)
Yeah. Well, again, it’s a good thing that strippers are becoming cameras now because Yes, they understand the
Crow (39:00)
That’s why I love people coming over to be online sex workers. So many people are joining right now and I’m like welcome. Welcome to being free from the patriarchy. Yeah, let’s go.
AMD (39:08)
Yeah.
Wanna be fabulous just like these strippers? Pay attention, it’s Stripper Tips. Yo, this is so much fun. I wanna move on to Stripper Tips. I wanna know what your stripper tip is.
Crow (39:23)
Okay. I because I was so shit at it for so many years, I was really bad at remembering people’s names. And I think being personable is your number one thing that really makes you stick in people’s minds. So always remember people’s names and always remember little facts about people. That is my strip tip, whether it’s online, in person or anything like that, because it makes them feel special. And if you, I’m always like when I have a conversation with someone now.
I’ll say their name when I meet them and I’ll repeat their name several times through the conversation. Just like that. ⁓
AMD (40:02)
Okay. In your head, do you do like, do you do like your own mind exercises too?
Crow (40:09)
I really suck at that, I suck at any, because I have an ADHD brain, it just kind of goes, shame. As long as I repeat their names several times in the following conversation, that was a tip given to me, so make sure you just say their name literally almost to the point where it’s laughable, just be like, yeah, hey Anne, that’s a nice opinion, like thanks for that, like, and it will stick in your head eventually, even if you sound a bit crazy, it’s crazy.
AMD (40:15)
Okay.
It might sound, yeah, doing it. I know that that is a thing. I’ve considered doing it, but it’s like, yeah, you start to sound a little…
Crow (40:44)
But then they might remember you for being crazy. People never forget me. That’s always my win because I look crazy on it.
AMD (40:48)
Yeah. Yeah. You are one of a kind, my friend. Thanks. Very memorable, yes. Get ready for our rapid fire question round. It’s time for four for one. All right, guys, it’s Rebecca’s four for one time. All right, what is the craziest thing that ever happened to you on a date?
Crow (40:57)
Thank you so much.
⁓ the greatest thing that happened to me on a date was I fell into some roadworks. I accidentally leaned against it and it wasn’t very stable and I fell down into the ground six feet outside a club and then they wouldn’t let me in for some reason.
AMD (41:32)
they think maybe they’re drunk or something or I know why that’s a liability thing they’re like no if she injured later then she could blame it on the club yeah yeah amazing all right next one how do you sleep at night
Crow (41:41)
Bitch is crazy, she’s not trustworthy. I don’t, I fucking don’t. I sleep as my nemesis. I have a real bad insomnia, night terrors, night paralysis. I was in an accident at night time when I was younger, so it’s fucking.
AMD (41:50)
Really?
Yeah. Interesting. Have you ever told someone that their face looked comfortable enough to sit on?
Crow (42:06)
Definitely in a strip club. I’ve said all the lines. All the lines.
AMD (42:10)
What about outside the strip club? Just like normal civilian life?
Crow (42:15)
No, I have, I don’t know, don’t, I’m quite a small person, I’m like 110 pounds, like five foot two. But I just, I’m not a big fan of face-sitting, I’m just worried I’m gonna suffocate at some point.
AMD (42:27)
You know, just, there’s a key to it. just don’t release your weight down and you know what I mean?
Crow (42:32)
I’m very clumsy, I can’t even begin to tell you, honestly.
AMD (42:39)
Alright, last question. If you had to leave everything behind and hit the road in an apocalypse type situation, what three items would you pack?
Crow (42:48)
pack my cat my naked cat who is my baby my love and joy I would pack I’m looking at it right now my sword I think that’d be quite good no
AMD (42:57)
Fuck yeah. ⁓
Crow (43:00)
I pack my rolling box so that can have a J on the road. It’s so convenient. It’s like, kuk kuk.
AMD (43:08)
Yeah, that is the ultimate kit right there. I’m super jealous. One of my am would have been tampons because
Crow (43:16)
Yeah, get mad. Let it out. Let’s do the apocalypse. mean, unless it’s a trap. So whatever.
AMD (43:21)
It’s a lie,it gets real messy though.
Crow (43:25)
Yeah, yeah, you might go use it and recognise it. No, I don’t know.
AMD (43:31)
my God, this has been such a pleasure. I knew you were gonna be fun.
Crow (43:35)
I’ve hada great time. I’ve had a lot of fun. It’s nice being on the other side.
AMD (43:39)
Yeah, can you tell everyone where to find you and how to learn more about you?
Crow (43:44)
Yes, so you can find me everywhere on the internet, only fans Twitter probably everywhere else except for Instagram at Katz and Kroes K A T S A N D C R O W S Instagram is now Riotz and Kroes R I O T S A N D C R O W S You can find my podcast anywhere that you find your podcasts. It’s Kroversation like conversation book. it. Or if you want to find me on Suicide Girls, my name is Katherine with a K.
AMD (44:08)
Yeah, that’s really…
Love it. Perfect. Lots of places to find you.
Crow (44:17)
Allover the place, all of me, all over the place, yeah.
AMD (44:21)
Is there anything you want to, is there any message that you want to send to sex workers around the world right now considering the state of affairs?
Crow (44:29)
I mean, I think just try and promote the hardship funds as much as possible. Remember that it’s tough for us, but it’s super tough for people whose jobs are criminal, criminalized, or at least not fully legal, and they can’t get like any kind of aid from anywhere. So yeah, just try and like promote and support everyone right now. It’s hard for everyone. So let’s at try and come out of it as a more tight-knit community. Friends.
AMD (44:55)
Awesome.
Yeah, thank you so much for joining me today and having me. And you’re so welcome. That’s a wrap for today’s show you guys. As always tune in every Wednesday to watch me talk to amazing strippers and sex workers around the world. See you next time.
Crow (45:01)
Thank you.