YAS Podcast: RCI Holdings Scandal #156 Transcript
In this episode of YAS Podcast, hosts AM Davies and NatsHoney, discuss the latest developments in the strip club industry, focusing on RCI Hospitality Holdings. They address the multiple allegations against RCI, including tax fraud, bribery, and a current misclassification lawsuit affecting employees and shareholders alike. The conversation features insights from dancers at RCI-owned clubs in Colorado and highlights the broader implications for the industry. With multiple lawsuits and increased house fees, there’s an urgent need for transparency, better labor practices, and a reevaluation of worker classifications. The episode emphasizes the significance of community allyship and the ongoing struggle for workers’ rights within the industry.
*This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* *This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* Begin transcript after opening credits.
AM: Hey everyone. Welcome to YAS Podcastf
I’m here with NatsHoney today. She is joining me on this recording. Hi Nats.
Nats: Hello AM Hello everyone out there.
AM: Thanks for joining me today. This is a different kind of episode. There’s a couple of things happening. Number one, this is our last episode for 2026. Last one.
Nats: Yeah. You guys have been very busy over there.
AM: I think we did 29. This will be 29, [00:01:00] something like that. Some ridiculous high 20 number in the, for the whole year.
Nats: That’s wonderful that that many messages were able to get out over the community.
AM: I love how. How, um, positive you are about the, and you’re right. It is, it’s great. And I am, I’m very grateful that, you know, there was more people on the projects this year.
We had Lisa Michelle doing guest hosting in the beginning of the year. We had you do some hosting. We’ve had, of course, Daisy doing some hosting. We had Onyx doing a host and we had a new guest host, Princess Marx, which is like, I mean, that’s amazing, right?
Nats: That is, that is,
AM: yeah. The whole,
Nats: Congratulations to YAS Work
AM: Thank you. Yeah. I keep saying I want this to be a community podcast and I think it’s important for other voices besides just mine all the time, you know? ’cause there’s so many people out there that have interesting ideas and [00:02:00] questions, you know, so it’s, it’s been so fun. It’s been a really exciting slash horrifying year.
Nats: That’s relatable. That is relatable.
AM: A hundred percent. Um, and the other thing that makes this episode a bit different is, I don’t know if you wanna call this investigative or researchy, um, but it’s definitely like a collaboration between me and you, one of our researchers on our team, and two other interviewers who clips of their interview interviewees, I should say, clips of their interviews will be added.
Um, as we go through this information today, we are talking about RCI Hospitality Holdings,
Nats: so well-known company, right?
AM: Very well known. So if, if you don’t know. Right. Um, RCI, Hospitality Holdings [00:03:00] owns all of the Rick’s Cabarets, plus they own, um, a ton of other clubs all over the country. Like, I couldn’t even name them all.
I think they own like over 50.
Nats: That sounds accurate.
AM: Mm-hmm.
Nats: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
AM: They own one that I worked at in New York, in the city. It starts with a v vivid
Nats: In New York?
AM: Yeah. In Manhattan. Mm-hmm.
Nats: Did they also have one in San Francisco named, vivid?
AM: I don’t know. We, we can look it up.
Do they own Vivid in, what’d you say In San Francisco?
Nats: San Francisco, yeah.
AM: F uh, spelling, no, they do not own Vivid Cabaret in San Francisco, but they do own the one in New York City why are we talking about Hospitality Holdings today? RCI Hospitality Holdings. Nats, do you wanna fill us in?
Nats: From what I understand, uh, they have some unhappy employees and I believe a mis [00:04:00] cal, uh, misclassification lawsuit was presented, allegedly.
I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know. I haven’t looked at it all. And, uh, it’s affecting their shareholders at this point, allegedly.
AM: Yes, allegedly, also, allegedly they had bribed a tax auditor to avoid paying over $8 million in taxes. That is also alleged and there is an ongoing case, um, regarding that. I believe that they’ve been indicted.
They have not been charged or convicted, um, or it has been not been decided that they did do this thing. But it is being spoken about in the mainstream media news that they bribed a tax auditor. Sorry, I’m trying so hard not to smile while I’m saying this because it’s just very interesting. That’s [00:05:00] all.
They bribed a tax auditor with free lap dances to audit them in a way that reduced how much taxes they would have to pay. And I mean, we’re talking upwards of like thousands and thousands of dollars per month per visit, I think up to like $5,000, like per visit. They were given in free lap dances and um, food, probably drinks, stuff like that.
Probably everything was free, right?
Nats: That instantly. Um, as much as that may be, the action itself, um, sounds very much against the law. I mean, I don’t know. I’m, I’m no one’s lawyer. It’s how the performers, the dancers are, are treated like that, that I find the most troubling.
AM: Okay, so let’s talk about that because I think that we should clear that up exactly how that happened.
So what’s your perception when I say all of this? [00:06:00] Like what do you perceive that we mean when we say that they were given free lap dance?
Nats: That people that would be considered like VIPs aren’t necessarily paying for the entertainment of the dancer. Instead they’re being, uh, compensated. So maybe the owner is, maybe the establishment is sliding a little money to the dancers their way like they normally would.
But I think that that still undercuts what the dancer could possibly make. Like a client is a client.
AM: Totally. So what I understand, my understanding from my research is that this tax auditor, him and potentially anyone else like him, I believe it was one tax auditor. It could be. We can look that up actually.
How many, let’s make sure tax auditors were in on the free lap dance scheme only one. Okay.
So there’s only one former [00:07:00] New York State tax auditor who has been publicly implicated. Their name is Alton Plunkett. Um, and he retired in April of 2024. And now all of this stuff happened between 2010 and 2024. So here’s what I believe happened based on my research that he was given like funny money, you know what I’m saying?
Nats: Mm-hmm.
AM: Um, like chips, like I, I used to know them as chips from Spearmint Rhino.
Nats: Mm-hmm.
AM: Um, and they call it different things in different clubs, but it’s basically, and just for anybody who doesn’t understand what we’re talking about, to give you context, it’s where the people go and like they put money on their credit card.
Um, so they like, basically they put their credit card down and let’s say they want a thousand dollars in funny money to then they can spend on the dancers. They give it to the dancers, and then the dancers pay that money. They give those chips, I mean, cash them out at the end of the night. I believe the [00:08:00] dancers pay a percentage on those.
I know the customer pays a percentage on those. So I don’t think the dancers were ever understood what they were doing. And a big reason why. I mean, let’s think about it. They did this from 2010 to 2024.
Nats: And I have a question about that, by the way, too.
AM: Right? That’s about 14 years. So if you like, let any dancers in on what they were doing or why they were accepting dances for less money, like that would’ve gotten out.
We would’ve known about this way sooner. And I think that they, they just gave this guy funny money and they just like let him loose. That’s what I think. What’s your question?
Nats: When did they, um, when did they go public on as a stock list? What year was.
When did, oh, that’s
AM: such a good question. Go public. It says RCI. Hospitality Holdings went public on July 31st, 1998. Traded on the NASDAQ stock market.
Nats: I thought they did something a few years ago. Like
AM: [00:09:00] Yeah, they’re only. Public on Nasdaq. Hold on. What caused, okay. Yeah, so they’ve been publicly traded for a long time now. Before our time. Maybe it’s just, it wasn’t a big deal until a while later.
So here we are. We’ve talked to two different workers who work at Denver Clubs in Colorado, and um, we should, I would love to know, like, hear from them. So we’re gonna pull a clip. How do they feel about the current climate?
Like, what’s going on in their clubs, how are they feeling?
We’ve had to change the sound of, of one person’s voice.
We’re not using their name, we’re not using their likeness in any way. And we’ve literally changed their voice because that’s how scared people are to talk about this.
We have Devynn Dewey here with us in the podcast studio today.
Do you wanna, Devynn, like give a brief [00:10:00] introduction of who you are so our audience can sort of get some context around, you know, what you’re, what we’re talking about today?
Devynn: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I am a current dancer in Colorado. Um, I am also the founder Don’t Strip Our Rights, so I am actively involved in organizing.
Um, I’ve worked in some of the RCI clubs as well, so,
Unfortunately everything that I’ve, we’ve uncovered with RCI has felt not real, but it is all real and equally shocking.
I mean, and like it was using the labor of dancers
AM: Also that.
Devynn: That these allegations are found true. You have used the labor of dance, because that was my question. It was like, okay, did dancers then have to pay $5 per dance They did for this corrupt auditor?
So yeah, I mean they were, it was like, in the indictment it says hotel stays, uh, private jet [00:11:00] flights, um, cash. And it, you know, what was included was in the indictment was, looks like they put it all in writing.
And it was all of the executives. It was, you know, they weren’t just, it wasn’t just like one or two people convening. It was, you know, everybody at the top who was like, Hey, can we get this? And you know, a couple people are okaying it, um, to give this auditor cash to what the auditor had said in the indictment is that he wanted to mostly do dances. He liked to just do dances with a bunch of girls.
I think this is really our chance and our time to demand transparency, right? If like, we can’t trust you to, I mean, at the end of the day, if this is true, this is really unsafe for us, not just with the general public, but historically we know that things like this are weaponized against [00:12:00] our industry legislatively. So, to do something like this, if it’s true, I mean, how could you do that to, to the, to the industry as a whole?
AM: What happens when these big clubs lose all this money? How do they stay open? And then how do we have workplaces?
Devynn: Right. And the thing is, is like not everybody is as worker friendly or as progressive towards sex workers as New York or Colorado.
AM: Yeah.
Devynn: And so if other states. Start to be like, well, we have an RCI club here.
What’s going on here? We’ve already seen how, you know, Texas has treated some of the clubs, um, out there where they do have RCI clubs raiding them in ways that affects sex workers. Um, auditing them, you know, not everywhere is as worker friendly to
AM: Right.
Devynn: For these [00:13:00] allegations to even come out right where it, it, that alone will put.
You know, us in, in a a, a purgatory sort of area where it’s like, okay,
AM: yeah,
Devynn: now, now we’re getting really nervous about what’s to come for the industry. I mean, it is just so stupid, quite frankly.
AM: Yeah. It really is stupid. So I heard from one person who shall remain anonymous, that at their RCI club, it’s business as usual, no one’s even talking about it. What’s it like in your club?
Devynn: I’ve been a PR pretty public face in this, and so people do ask me about it a lot. For me, it’s very tense and you know, we just, I am pretty well prepared after years of being pretty like, outspoken about this, that like, it’s gonna be tense, um, for us.
I mean, it’s just been such a firestorm in Denver with our own cases that people, you know, [00:14:00] are talking about it. But I think it’s one of those things where we know, and we’re, we’re doing our best to compartmentalize too. Um, I mean, just with everything going on in this country and. You know how this could affect the occupation.
I think we just have this unspoken way of trying to compartmentalize while we’re at work. So it feels like, you know, I think a lot of times the club can be for dancers, but it is for customers. Right? Like we get to walk in there and be our stage name and sort of forget for a little bit.
AM: Yeah.
Devynn: And so that’s what’s really frustrating about this too, is like, if this is true, how could you put this burden on us where it’s like we’re dealing with enough in the outside world.
AM: Sure.
Devynn: We’re not corporate millionaires and like, you know, so it, it puts a big pressure on, but I think. In a way we’re, we’re trying to compartmentalize it and be our [00:15:00] stage names and also try to like hold onto the fantasy as much as we can for as long as we can.
AM: Yeah. So no one, like are your managers like giving you a hard time?
Is that okay to ask? Are they are?
Devynn: It’s tense.
AM: Okay. Gotcha.
Devynn: But I think at the end of the day, like, I don’t know, there’s always just this way. This like specific community with strippers. Like, I don’t even have to tell you that, you know, like, it’s like it’s okay because I know that even if we don’t all all say it, even if not everybody is out front, like there’s this unspoken, it’s, it’s just us right now.
You know?
AM: We’re here with another worker from an RCI club that we’re going to talk to and, um, they’re choosing to remain anonymous for obvious reasons.
Anon: Hello. Thank you so much for having me.
I was just a little nervous, but more excited to just bring light to the topic overall. [00:16:00] Um, but ’cause I think a lot of the employees probably have a similar experience to mine. I don’t think that mine is unique. So hopefully I can speak for some other employees as well. It’s, it’s truly, it’s shocking, but it’s also not shocking at the same time. Like you just, you just have to take a deep breath and kinda laugh at the corruption, surprising or maybe unsurprisingly, my house fees have actually gone up recently. . So they’ve basically gone up by $20. At first it was 10 and then it was 20.
I think trying to find a solution is really difficult and while we might not have one at the moment, at least we can bring a aware awareness to the subject through podcasts like this, just because I can’t even tell you how many of my coworkers [00:17:00] don’t, don’t even know that there’s, have no idea that there’s any sort of problems going on, um, that think it’s totally normal to be tipping out the manager tons of money.
Like, and they just, they just don’t realize that the system is corrupt. Um, and I just wish a lot, I wish there was more awareness to this subject. in terms of having a slow down effect for RCI, from my personal experience, I do not believe. That that’s going to happen. Um, they just opened a new strip club, I believe about four or five months ago in Central City, Colorado, which is in the mountains.
So that’s the rcis newest location. Also this year opened in Colorado was a bombshells location, which is similar to like a Hooters. It’s kind [00:18:00] of like food service. Um, that was also opened this year also by RCI. Um, so they have two new locations in Colorado just this year. So I do not believe that it’s going to be affecting them, but also I’m not too sure about the legal side of things, just being a dancer. I, if I’m not mistaken, this new club that just opened in the mountains because there’s so much pushback and so much local laws, I believe that they have to pay a fine every single day that they’re open. Um, and so they just, they have so much, so much money. The 14 million is, is nothing.
AM: I mean, that’s it right there. So that’s been kind of my question, like what’s happening with these lawsuits keep coming up.
Nats: Mm-hmm.
AM: How does that affect the business itself and like, do you have to shutter, do you have to find ways to increase your revenue? And like, how are you gonna do that? Because [00:19:00] you and I both know, we’ve seen this for over 20 years now, that
Nats: these lawsuits are taking the clubs out like left and right and
AM: they’re taking the clubs out
Nats: and they refuse to change the business model.
So it’s like if, if the model doesn’t adapt to the current times. Hopefully, uh, someone comes along and wants to change it enough is all I have to say. Right. Because everybody’s closing.
AM: Right. And my my thing is, it’s like we’ve watched, remember Nats when we were working, like when we were dancing, did you pay a house fee in 2002, 2003?
Were we you paying a house fee? I wasn’t.
Nats: I did, I did pay a fee to come in. Yes. At my nude
spot, at my first home spot, I paid a, a fee to come in. The only time I wasn’t paying uh, fees up front was if I was doing like an amateur contest when I was in the, the amateur circuit and doing all those, like weekly contest.
AM: In 2002, you were paying house fees,
Nats: Frisky Kitty charged a house fee. I don’t recall them charging a house fee for a [00:20:00] day shift because I think they were trying to get dancers in. But then for night shift, they definitely had a house fee. And over the years it did increase, but it was always something that I felt was very manageable.
And this is coming from somebody who, um, um, I was never a lapper. I don’t get a lot of dances. It’s, that’s, that’s my forte has always been stage even back then. So, uh, having a reasonable house fee has always been like a, something that I, I required.
AM: Okay.
I don’t remember, I don’t remember paying a house fee.
So if we were paying house fees, they must have been low and not, like, if I was paying a hundred dollars house fee like people are now, I would remember that. I think the only time I paid a hundred dollars house fee was
Nats: Vegas.
AM: I’m about to say Vegas, but I’m about to be like, I don’t even think it was that much.
Nats: Yeah. Yeah. Even when we were dancing a Vegas house fee was like one 50, something like that. It was, it was on the higher end. It was like the highest
AM: in 2005.
Nats: It was like the highest house fee. Pretty much a [00:21:00] across everywhere. But, uh, it was still reasonable. It was still reasonable.
AM: Standby. What was the average house fee for Las Vegas in 2003?
In the strip clubs. Oh, okay. They already know. Thank you. Okay, fine. It was about a hundred dollars. Right. But they don’t take anything else from you, right? They weren’t, they’re not lot. No, that’s not true. They took, if you’re on the floor, that’s where they don’t take money from you, which is why I preferred to do most of my work on the floor.
Nats: Yeah.
AM: Um,
Nats: but when you’re like dancing on the, uh, customer, like right on the public floor, like not necessarily in a room in the back.
AM: Yeah. And they took that at Sapphires in, um, Manhattan too, but, uh, yeah. But they take from the, the rooms.
Nats: Mm-hmm.
The room that you’re in, they’re marking you and, and taking your money.
AM: In Vegas, though, I guess, you know, I don’t know. My memory’s hazy. It was a long time ago.
Um, [00:22:00] mm-hmm. I guess,
Nats: yeah, that part. That part. Yeah.
AM: But seriously though, I guess the point though that also I’m trying to make is that it’s increased. Increased, increased,
Nats: yes.
AM: Increase.
Nats: Yes.
AM: Um, they have all of these new types of fees now and um, and then, and there’s continuous lawsuits and they’re continuing to pay out and they’re continuing to charge us more and more and more.
Nats: Yes.
AM: As time goes, because the rate of inflation and the economy and da, da, da.
Nats: I was just about to say, and, and our cost of living is increasing as well, so it’s
AM: Right. But what hasn’t increased, let’s talk about this, is the cost of lap dances.
Nats: I hear that they’ve only decreased.
AM: Who did that?
Nats: I hear that there’s a lot of clubs in Los Angeles who have decreased their prices in order to.
Yeah, allegedly. ’cause I’m not, I’m not currently in a, a club, but allegedly,
AM: right.
Nats: A lot of the clubs out here in la uh, have significantly reduced their, um, lap dance pricing.
AM: [00:23:00] Wow.
Nats: Yeah.
AM: Well this is a huge problem, um, that, that, and it’s continuing to happen and nothing is stopping and, and nothing is changing.
I mean, I guess something we can talk about too is, you know, this dancers being employees versus independent contractors.
Um, what are, what are your thoughts? Do you wanna, do you wanna start on that topic?
Nats: It’s, it’s a, the idea of dancers. Not being referred to as employees just sounds at this point. It just sounds, uh, ridiculous to me because I’ve traveled across the country and in other states there was a payroll system put in place.
So I, you know, when I entered the industry in Los Angeles, most of the clubs were paying payroll like so. Um, I come from a time in which where that was protocol and for it to be now flipped a [00:24:00] hundred, like just complete 180. And now dancers are paying for their own shifts. Like you’re, you’re starting in the negative, like, I don’t,
AM: so you recall a time where you got paid to come to work?
Nats: Definitely.
AM: But you also recall a time where you paid house fees very early on in your career?
Nats: Definitely.
AM: So you’re talking about two different locations. Okay.
Nats: Both in Los Angeles.
AM: Interesting. I worked at a bunch of places in LA and I never got paid to show up.
Nats: When we came in, a lot of people were, uh, choosing not to do it because, uh, at that time it was just like, it was an easy sale on like, oh, you know, you could have more control if, if you get paid, then we gotta tell you when to be here.
And most of us were entering like, no, uh, we wanna, I wanna be able to come when I wanna come. You know, it, I want more freedom in it. You know?
AM: Right.
Nats: We didn’t want necessarily the paper trail ’cause there was also a discrimination factor that was, uh, that we would constantly run up against. I remember that.[00:25:00]
’cause for some clubs I opted not to receive payroll, but there was one club I, I did do, I didn’t stay there for very long. I was only there for I think about three months, if I’m being completely honest. Um, but yeah, everywhere else, I, I, I didn’t want to, I didn’t want the paper trail.
AM: I also would have would’ve chosen to be an independent contractor.
But even then, I recall very vividly this argument that I had with, um, a manager, uh, one of the managers I worked with. Um, and it was Halloween night and it was like just horrible night to work. Uh, I’ve never worked Halloween since that night. And, um, I was like, I’m leaving. This is stupid. And I was a high earner.
Nats: Mm-hmm.
AM: And he did not want me to leave. And he would followed me out into the parking lot and was like, kind of threatening my shifts and my job if I left. And I [00:26:00] remember at the time, I don’t know where I got this information from, but I was like, I know my rights and I know that you can’t force me to be here, that I’m, I am allowed to come and go as I please.
And I know that. And, um, he didn’t have anything to say and he let me go. Um, and I look back on that and I’m like, who told you that You didn’t know that? Like it So
Nats: even if you pulled it outta thin air though, like even if it was just like, eh, made sense. ’cause it’s totally right. Like, it, it, especially if you’re gonna be, if we’re treat, if there’s signing this up to be treated as ICS at that time, that’s the whole idea.
We’re coming and going as we want to. Your business isn’t depending on us to make the money. You’re, you’re, you’re doing that other ways, like whether or not we’re there, your business would survive if your business cannot survive without us.
AM: No.
Nats: Employee.
AM: So that’s the thing. Like, I’m fine, I’m fine being an independent contractor, but [00:27:00] independent contractors don’t pay to work.
Nats: Yeah.
AM: They get paid to work.
Nats: Yeah.
AM: I’m fine being an independent contractor, but you also, you’re not supposed to tell me what my schedule is.
Nats: Yeah.
AM: What I can and can’t wear.
Nats: Yeah.
AM: Based on the law. I get it. Right. ’cause there’s that two finger, it’s like a thong law, right? Mm-hmm. I get the law, like we can’t wear things based on the law.
I get that. But you’re just like, you have to wear a gown. Says who? Says who? I have to wear a gown. You, because now you’re telling me to wear a uniform and not only do I have to wear a said uniform, I have to spend a hundred dollars.
Nats: Yes.
AM: On multiple said uniforms.
Nats: Yes. The expenses that we have to incur and actually in order to actually do the job, and I understand that it’s a, a tax write off, but no one’s taken, uh, the expenses that we need to dish out in order to actually do it.
Like we should not be getting robbed [00:28:00] at every. Fucking freaking turn.
AM: Right.
Nats: I don’t feel like cussing today
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AM: So let’s hear from our interviewees how they feel about independent contractor versus employee.
Nats: Mm.
Devynn: I think this is a really good time for. Labor rights community in general to really pay attention to sex workers. Like our problems are yours.
AM: Yeah.
Devynn: You know, um, it may seem like we’re some other, but, um, [00:29:00] at the end of the day, if they can do it to us or if they can deny us our rights, they can do the same thing to you.
AM: Mm-hmm.
Devynn: You know, stripping specifically not illegal. So if we’re, we’re getting stolen from, if we’re getting denied our rights, um, you know, or you know, if, um, there are issues legislatively that affect us negatively, that can come back to the labor rights.
Anon: They have signs in the back that say, if you believe that you should be classified as an employee and you’re not, and you’re classified as an independent contractor, but truly you’re doing employee duties, contact this number. Um. Which is what the lawsuit was all about, was about misclassification.
I did see some signs in the dressing room at one of the locations that I work at regarding [00:30:00] this.
It did say, I believe it was something govern, I think it was something government, not like RCI.
I don’t wanna like a hundred percent push that. Um, I just remember that there was a number. If you think you’ve been incorrectly classified, call this number. They enforce how long we work. Like they say you have to work a minimum of X amount of hours. They enforce the house fee. They enforce the dress codes, they enforce, enforce the dance prices. They enforce the room prices. There’s not little that they don’t enforce. And yet we’re still classified as independent contractors.
And especially too, one thing that kind of bugs me is the tipping culture. For me personally, I, not only do I not mind tipping like the dj, I actually, I like tipping the dj. I really do think that [00:31:00] they’re, you know, if, if they’re like really. Who like calling you up on stage and like doing the most, playing new music.
Like, yes, I will tip the dj, but what really irks me is when management expects a tip for helping you out. And I wish you could see me, I’m saying helping you out in air quotes because it’s just, they’re not really helping you out. It’ll be like a notification from pole position being like, we have five girls right now.
We need more dancers. If you come in, we’ll help you out with our house fee. With your house fee. So it’s like, oh. So you’ll help us out with something that is already supposed to be free, and then you’re gonna ask for a tip for it. Specifically a lot of girls that have just turned 18, they, they just really new to the industry and unfortunately do not know.
AM: So that’s a really good point about the young dancers.
Nats: That’s what worries me the most, [00:32:00] honestly, like that. As, as we enter the industry, we’re keeping the machine going. So unless we get through and they’re like, Hey, I don’t know what that means. I don’t know if people need to understand what’s happening, uh, in this industry before they’re of legal age, so that if somebody does decide to do this when they become legal, but waiting until the last minute to get this information out in regards to this industry and the manipulation and the abuse of power, I think it’s a little too late.
AM: Yeah. I think we need the, the strippers that work now need to be kind of taking these other workers under their wings and being like, this is, this is what’s going on and this is the truth. You know? Uh, and or we, we should have some sort of materials for people.
Nats: Yeah.
AM: ‘Cause also, right now, with the economy the way it is, we’re gonna see more strippers, more sex workers in general, stepping in, you know, more civilians stepping into sex work because [00:33:00] people are getting desperate. And that’s what happens in low economic times.
Nats: Yes.
AM: And I get it. Like if I were
single and living in today, I mean, I would, if I didn’t meet my partner, I’d still be doing God knows what, you know what I mean? You know, I just got lucky. And, but I can’t imagine like what it’s like out there in this moment.
And then you are just being preyed upon by these, by these people. And what blows my mind, allegedly preyed upon. And what blows my mind is that, um, there’s so much to go around.
Nats: Yeah. That part,
AM: you know?
Nats: Yeah.
AM: And you said something, there’s something in this document here, let me look for it. It, you we’re talking about the investors.
We’re talking about the investors of RCI.
Nats: Mm-hmm.
AM: And, um, there is a lawsuit. Or there’s something going on between the investors of [00:34:00] RCI and RCI. What’s, let’s get that straight and then you fill us in while I’m looking this up, if you have info.
Nats: Uh, not, not additional.
AM: Okay.
Nats: Yeah. I just know that the shareholders realized that the well allegedly, uh, realized that the lawsuits are expensive.
AM: Yeah.
Nats: Uh, realize that the lawsuits are cutting into the profits.
AM: Mm-hmm.
Nats: So therefore the numbers that are being provided are extremely inaccurate, um, allegedly. And, um, a publicly traded strip club can’t necessarily hide labor abuse. Like bad press is bad press. So, um, just,
AM: I mean,
Nats: again, I say
AM: yeah,
Nats: we need education in terms of the industry.
So like, now we’re talking about investors need the proper education in terms of like, how is the entity making the money? Is it off the labor specifically of the women or men, whoever it may be inside that [00:35:00] building?
AM: Yeah.
Nats: Is it off of that actual indi uh, is it off of those actual individuals? And if so, you should have the proper, uh, financial projections and budget to actually be able to compensate them.
Have your smaller profit, like present the true numbers.
AM: Right.
So there is a lawsuit that alleges that between December, 2021 and September, 2025, the owners and company failed to disclose that they were engaged in tax fraud and bribery, alleged tax fraud and bribery. The class action lawsuit claim.
Lawsuits, multiple, claim that positive statements the company made about its operations were materially misleading, which led investors, which led to investors losing money when the information became public. When the news broke RCI stock price dropped significantly. And then there are [00:36:00] law firms that are actively recruiting shareholders who lost money to join the lawsuits.
Now, as of November 14th, which is today, Hospitality Holdings is down by almost 58% since January 2nd of this year. And I’m looking at this little graphic, it’s very cute, colorful, and it just goes down, down, down, down, down, down.
Nats: Oh God no. Oh no.
AM: It’s so sad. And the thing is, it’s like I’m not laughing ’cause I’m happy, I’m laughing ’cause it’s fucking bananas.
Like I don’t want. RCI holdings to go under. I don’t want them to lose money
Nats: at all.
AM: I want them to stay in business Yes. And keep workers working. Right. I don’t want anything bad to happen to RCI holdings because they own so many clubs and have so many workers that rely [00:37:00] on this income that it would be devastating even to close one club.
Nats: Yes.
It’s interesting to me because, um, allegedly I wasn’t a, I wasn’t a part of it, but in the early 2000’s I believe, uh, there were a group of dancers that sued RCI over misclassification. So, and that kind of set the precedent nationally for us. And this is before dynamex. This is before AB5.
This is before, uh, Deja Vu was facing a bunch of, uh, misclassification lawsuits before Spearmint Rhino. And it’s been happening. I know my entire time for sure. They set the precedent, then I wonder if they would like to set a new precedent. You know what I mean? Like,
AM: that would be great.
Nats: It’s obvious that they, they care.
It’s obvious that they care about the money and they wanna see the industry do great things, and they want to be on the forefront of that. That’s obvious. ’cause you’re taking a lot of risk. You’re putting yourself out
there and you have a very wide portfolio. And it’s also obvious [00:38:00] that the current model isn’t working.
AM: Mm.
Nats: So we actually like the dancers, the, the clients, your investors. Everyone needs you to actually step up to the plate and find that new thing that’s working. And I think that that starts with them talking to their workforce and involving their workforce on a board level. You know what I mean? I, I think that the profits need to be shared it a little bit more like, we need to rethink this entire fucking model. It’s not working for anyone.
AM: Right. And it’s not working because whorephobia, right? Because the, the workers, the strippers, the sex workers are below and beneath, right? The owners, like, we’ve all heard the things that they say about us, right?
We’re replaceable, we’re paper towels. Like, you just get a new roll, like 18 year olds are graduating high school every year. Like, you know what I mean? Like those are the things that we’ve heard. And so they treat us as disposable, but then they’re, they’re [00:39:00] reaping what they sow, right? So because they treat the workers the way they do and don’t acknowledge us, or our input or our value, I mean, obviously we’re making a shit ton of money for these companies.
And it’s like they don’t value that. They just see us as replaceable. And so they’re not learning and they’re not creating like bonded, like teamwork type situations. But they do it through manipulation of conversation, right? We’re a family. We’re a family, we’re a family slash-
Nats: And they do have their, and they may have their like chosen small few of performers that are very close to them, but what they should try to aim for is to have their entire staff of dancers close to them, not select few,
AM: and not even necessarily close, right?
Because I’m thinking about like what some workers might wanna be like, I don’t really wanna be close, I just wanna get in, get out. But to have like maybe more of a culture, maybe that’s what I’m thinking about.
Nats: Okay.
AM: Like a culture of like [00:40:00] feedback and respectability. It’s like they don’t respect our feedback, our thoughts, our feelings.
Like I can’t even, like when I had my, like when I had my period, I’d be like, bro, I gotta go.
Nats: Yeah.
AM: And they’re like, you need to stay for like two more hours. And like made and threatened me. Threaten my shifts, threaten my livelihood if I didn’t power through feeling like absolute garbage. And then like I get period blood on this rich guy’s white jeans like that totally happened before.
Whoops.
Nats: That’s funny.
AM: Not my fault.
Nats: Yeah,
AM: Not my fucking fault.
Nats: Yeah.
AM: I mean, I, I would, so there were times where I put my foot down and times that I didn’t, and I think it depended on what was going on for me in life, who the boss was, how tough they were, how much I could push back or not, you know?
But like, I look at times today and like, because I, we, we, they’re not making, I don’t think they’re making as much money as we did. Maybe they’re making as much, but in comparatively to [00:41:00] inflation, right? We technically were making more because the cost of living was lower back in 2002. Um, and so I feel like there’s just more at stake now than there was back then.
There were more clubs, there was more money, there was less dancers, there was less of us.
Nats: Yes, yes.
AM: Right. So there was more like, okay, fuck you, fire me. I’m just gonna fucking go over here. It’s not really like that right now
Nats: because there’s so many performers at one place. Like every place is kind of overloaded,
AM: right.
So, um, definitely we’re gonna play some now we’re gonna play like some clips from the dancers, uh, from the interviews that we did,
Devynn: so earlier this year we had the Denver Labor investigation into, um, wage theft, uh, with RCI, which,
I had never seen it happen like this before, at least not in our industry. Um, it wasn’t a a [00:42:00] class action lawsuit. It was actually the auditor’s office and a division of the auditor’s office, uh, the municipal, uh, Denver Labor. They were doing an investigation for wage theft themselves.
There was an anonymous report, um, that, uh, Matt, the executive director of Denver Labor, he had received, he was at some like community event and somebody was like, Hey, my managers, um, you know, wanting tips from me, you know, is, is taking a portion of my tips, is that legal?
And he was like, whoa. And I think I tend to forget myself how closed off our community is from so many people where they don’t even know that like, we pay a house fee. Like if you say a house fee to somebody who’s like outside of the strip club industry, like they don’t even know what that is. Um. So it was, it was just new to them.
And then they, uh, independently opened an investigation into it. They did a press release. I saw [00:43:00] the press release and I was like, whoa, you know, what is this? I was immediately skeptical, um, just because I think historically we’ve- Nobody ever listens to us in the government,
i’ve had a great experience with Denver Labor, um, and it in the same regard has opened up a lot of coalition building with just- Labor Rights community in general in Colorado, as well as other, uh, you know, state legislators, city legislators are really, really listening and really interested in what’s going on, um, and, and in a way that they’re, they’re genuinely concerned.
I can’t remember a time in my organizing that I had seen so much allyship from people outside of the community.
It’s a pretty stark contrast to now what’s happening in New York with their auditor. Right. It’s like, unfortunately, I feel like it’s, there can be two extremes.
It can be either, you know, um. Uh, genuine [00:44:00] allyship and like they really care because we’re workers at the end of the day or there’s now this,
There are almost like every other day there’s like a new class action being filed, I mean, in, in many, many, many states, I think I’ve counted like 15
AM: Yikes.
Devynn: Different law firms that have filed for something.
AM: Yeah.
Devynn: And there’s already, you know, the president had already been in trouble by shareholders for, for stealing cash from shareholders and using it to pay his kids’ tuition to pay for pay for private jet flights.
Like this isn’t some new thing. He had already been in trouble ‘before with things like this. I think this was probably seven, eight years ago.
there will come a point I fear where we’re gonna need to really, even if you don’t wanna be directly organizing or be super out front, that’s okay. But we’re, we’re gonna have to [00:45:00] strategize here.
So I’m, I’m really hoping to do some outreach with dancers in other states, especially ones that might not be as worker friendly, um, or progressive, because, you know, I, and I, I don’t wanna fear monger here, but I, I do, um, I do get concerned about states, you know, like Texas states in the south that are not as worker friendly. Where they, where they have, um, quite a few clubs.
You know, and, and see how they’re doing, what’s going on for them. What’s the vibe like for them?
Have you had any run-ins with law enforcement or city officials? Um, because I know. The last couple years, there’s some clubs in Texas that have had some issues, um, that are under RCI. So I, yeah, I, there’s a concern there. Like I said, I don’t wanna fear monger, but, but I
AM: Sure
Devynn: I get concerned. Um, just because it’s not as progressive everywhere.
[00:46:00] You know, for a long time we’ve been going at this fight alone and we’re going up against giants. But I think, you know, for, for dancers too, this is, this is a time to want transparency.
Um, you know, in I, the biggest concern that I saw online were house fees being raised after this.
And I know things are making a little bit more sense now because I remember last August they implemented this mysterious $8 promo fee. It’s separate from our house fee, and they just call it a promo fee.
It’s $8. And then after all this came out, I started, I’m not making any accusations, but I am raising an eyebrow.
That fee seems a little bit more interesting now that all of this is coming out.
AM: Okay.
Devynn: So that’s a valid concern and we’re, you know, allowed to ask for further transparency.
Where is our money going if our house [00:47:00] fees, you know, are going to be raised, if there’s plans for that. Um, and I will definitely do my best to help coordinate or keep track of, of any raising of house fees in RCI clubs. Um, but you know, like I said, yeah, and like you said, it’s definitely a privilege to be out and about your identity as a sex worker. So we, I do not expect anybody to do that by any means.
AM: Yeah.
Devynn: Um, but our greatest is being informed right now.
AM: Yeah.
Devynn: Yeah. Um, you know, you don’t have to take it from me. You don’t have to take it from what the managers say. But for what public information is available, our best asset right now is just to be informed.
My organization is Don’t Strip Our Rights.
Um, and then our handle is don’t underscore, strip underscore our underscore and then, uh, rights. Um, we’re building a website right now. We are [00:48:00] organized, um, and, uh, structured as a C four. Um, so we can certainly, you know, help with any, any dancer’s efforts and I will do my best to outreach and talk to anybody, especially in, in other states, like I said, that, that aren’t as worker friendly. I’m, I’m definitely specifically concerned. And wanna hear from those workers.
Anon: I think the narrative that they’re trying to. Say in both of these lawsuits is that they don’t have a lot of rec records about what’s happening, whether it’s be people’s schedules and what they’ve worked, um, the amount of money they’ve made, the amount of rooms or dances they’ve sold. Um, they’re trying to make it all seem like there is no records, but this just simply isn’t true.
With this most recent lawsuit here in Colorado in February, it was said that there’s said to be ordered [00:49:00] 14 million or something like that out to 200 workers that were affected.
But in reality, it’s not just 200 workers. It’s it’s way, way more than 200 workers. Um, and there’s just simply no way for them to know that because they don’t keep records. If they kept records, I would’ve been on the records. I would’ve received, um, a part of that. But of course, there’s just no record of these things. While I would like to be optimistic that this would encourage changes, I just don’t think that that’s the case. Um, I believe that whenever something shady happens, any sort of lawsuit, I think that they often just, uh, change the name of the establishment. In Colorado in particular, one location, the name has changed like at least three or four [00:50:00] times.
Um, and that’s what happens. They get a lawsuit and then the name changes. It would be really interesting to look into the his- ’cause you can easily Google like the name changes of what these places have been called over the years. Um, and I really do think that they just get a lawsuit and change the names.
Sometimes I almost wonder if they do these things intentionally. In Colorado in particular, there’s two clubs. Both under RCI, one is titled PTs Show Club. The other is titled PTs Centerfold. Um, so they’re both PTs, but just different PTs. Um. I think a lot of this is probably about classification.
AM: So should we like, kind of close up our thoughts on this, I think I, I made some notes. There’s one thing that says, when courts rule in favor of dancers, it forces the [00:51:00] industry to change.
And my question is, does it though, because nothing seems to change,
Nats: but the, the idea is that it’s supposed to, like, the idea is that it’s supposed to, the, the idea is that the punishment being fined, having the money being taken away is the punishment. And one wouldn’t want to do that again. ‘Cause you would have the money take being take being taken away from you again.
But instead it’s- and
maybe it’s because it’s so much profit involved, I’m not sure. But they continue to do it and then just pay out and continue to have the same business practices and then pay out another lawsuit.
AM: Yeah. Right. So I have a couple of questions. My question first is to the workers, how long are we gonna keep playing that game and nothing changes?
And then to the, to the business owners that are paying out, how long can you keep doing that? How sustainable is that for your business and your profit margin? Are you really making that much money that you can afford to pay [00:52:00] out $14 million every few years? Is that why you’re avoiding paying your ta, allegedly avoiding paying your $8 million taxes because you had a lawsuit?
And also, here’s my last question. Why can’t, I’m not a huge fan of the law all the time, but why can’t we just follow it so that we can all make money together? Do things right.
Nats: I’m with that. I like the sound of it.
AM: I mean, I, you know, constructs and all that jazz, you know, that’s a whole other rabbit hole.
But I guess, and then lastly is my, something I’ve been saying for a while, and then I don’t think will ever happen. It’s what, can’t we just have like a third classification of worker? Can’t there be a third one? Or, or can you treat independent contractors like true independent contractors? Like, what’s up with that?
What’s up?
Nats: Yeah.
What, what, what does that system truly look like? Like, like, yeah, like maybe, like, maybe, maybe that’s what one should try,
AM: right? Like, have you all tried it? Have you tried [00:53:00] letting dancers come in whenever they want? Like they’re supposed to have you tried it? And how
Nats: not charge them to come in,
AM: not charge them.
Why don’t you give them perks for coming in when you’re like, oh, there’s only three dancers tonight. We need more people. Give me perks. Make me wanna come in that’s for everyone else out there to decide how, how are we gonna keep doing this? Because like I, I’m watching, I’ve been watching, I know you have Nats, like the deterioration of our industry.
Nats: Yeah.
AM: And um, you go into strip clubs now and they are not fun anymore. Like when I used to work at the Spearman Rhino in downtown, they’d have tipping wars between like a prince from Dubai and like then some other like rich tech guy. And they’re just like having tipping wars and the room is packed and people are winning Lakers tickets and like the hottest babes ever like doing cocaine at the top of the pole.
Like that’s what it was like, okay, maybe we did cocaine in the dressing room, but you know what I [00:54:00] mean?
Nats: Yes, I know exactly.
The energy has changed. I think that for so long it’s been, uh, marketed towards, uh, male dominance and, and like, you know, successful men. So right now it’s not necessarily set up for it to be like a party atmosphere. Not even a party atmosphere. Atmosphere for men, but just a place for men to go to in order to have access to, uh, beautiful women or men.
AM: Yeah. Well, times are changing and they certainly aren’t. They’re just, they’re, it is like, they’re so out of the strip clubs in general are pretty out of tune with what’s happening around the world. Um, and so I just really, I really hope that strip club owners and managers like are, are listening to this or something like it.
Listening to someone, you know, ’cause we really don’t want them to fail. We really don’t.
Nats: No,
AM: At least I don’t, I want workers to have jobs.
Nats: I want the industry to flourish.
AM: Same. [00:55:00]
Nats: I wanna, I want, I want the industry to flourish. I, I think that we have room to grow. We’ve always only like had each other. Like I come from a club that was extremely small.
My home club, it was very small. It, it did have like, I don’t wanna say a family feel, but I spent a lot of time there and it did feel like that. And I just think that when a business can really kind of like, you know, be there for each other, it makes real solid employees, uh, really good performers, like your outlook on life changes.
AM: Yeah, I agree.
Nats: You know?
AM: Yeah. It is nice to have a place like that and not everybody gets a chance to. So, um, yeah, I just wish better for the industry, better for the workers. Yeah. Um, we’d really love to hear from our audience what you think. Nothing that is expressed here is, these are just our opinions, mine and Nats opinions.
Some things are obviously factual that we looked up. We could provide links to [00:56:00] information in the description. Um, but we’d love to hear about how you’re feeling about these corporations and their behavior in our industry and how it’s hurting workers and how it’s overall hurting the industry as a whole.
As a whole. How these actions are hurting the industry. And, um, yeah, tell us how you’re feeling and what you think. And if you’d like to hear more episodes like this, as always, thank you for listening. This is our last episode for the year. See you next year.