YAS Podcast: Pleasure to Purpose #139 Transcript
In this episode of YAS Podcast, AM Davies introduces their guests Scarlett Pereira and Elizabeth Splain. Scarlett, a sex worker and animal rescuer, shares her inspiring journey of rescuing horses and advocating for sex worker rights. Elizabeth Splain, the author of Scarlett’s biographical novel ‘Pleasure to Purpose,’ joins the conversation to discuss the process of writing the book and the profound impact it had on her. The episode delves into the stigma around sex work, the challenges and triumphs faced by sex workers, and the deep empathy that drives both Scarlett’s and Elizabeth’s work.
*This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* Begin transcript after opening credits.
AMD: Hey there, everyone today your host is AMD. This is YAS Podcast, originally known as Yes, a Stripper Podcast. But we have rebranded and you should know that by now. Um, but if you don’t, well we have, and here you are listening to YAS Podcast, which is produced by YAS Work, a nonprofit organization today, my producer.
What’s up, Emily Cip.
Emily: Hey. Hey. How are you?
AMD: I’m great. Thanks [00:01:00] so much for doing this Is your first time producing. Yeah,
Emily: I’m so excited. Add to my I resume.
AMD: I’m excited. Yes. You know, I chose and asked you to do this episode for a very specific reason. Do you know what it is? Do you know the reason?
Emily: I feel like
as there’s
animals involved, yes, maybe.
AMD: Absolutely yes. So what’s your latest animal rescue. Can you tell our audience
Emily: my latest rescue?
Yes. Would be, um, probably Kevin. I think it’s Kevin, right? Leopard. Gecko,
yes.
AMD: Yes. It sounds like I think I, I think that’s right. I think he’s my latest. Yeah.
Emily: They, you know, I get so many, so often it’s hard to keep track, but I think Kevin is still, still the latest.
AMD: Yes. I, so for everyone who, like, if you don’t know who Emily is yet, Emily is, uh, the treasurer of YAS Work. Very exciting stuff. [00:02:00] And we also, you also did an episode with us on um,
Emily: I did.
I did. It was
so fun.
AMD: Yes. I asked you to be on this episode because you rescue animals regularly and, um, as do I actually.
Mm-hmm.
Yes. I don’t know if our listeners know that I rehab alligators and crocodiles. I don’t know if they really know that. I know, I know.
Emily: Probably not.
AMD: I know, I know because I don’t talk about it publicly very often, but, um, it is an absolute pleasure to rescue animals. And I used to say back in the day, if I were not a sex worker, I would, I would save animals for the rest of my life.
That’s what I would do. I would work with animals. And um, that’s exactly what happened.
Mm-hmm.
But like, but I wasn’t even like, I wasn’t like, I’m gonna go look for an animal rescue. It just kind of plopped into my lap.
What about you?
Emily: [00:03:00] You manifest it, I
feel like.
AMD: Exactly. So what, how come, how did you get into, I.
All of it. Did you manifest
it too, or I
Emily: same. I, I think so. I think it just, I mean, the animals just find me all the time. Even when I’m like, I amm at capacity, I can’t do anymore. There’s always another one.
AMD: This is true. So I do,
Emily: I’m a foster failure. I know. So I go into it thinking that I’m going to foster and uh mm-hmm.
And then I don’t do the giveaway part.
AMD: I love
- Anyways, moving on to why it matters that you’re an animal rescuer. Is because our guests today, well, we have two guests today. One is an animal rescuer. And the other is the author of her story. So we are going to talk about all of that. We’re gonna talk about the animal rescue, how they got into it, how this book came to be, and all of the things [00:04:00] and what makes sex workers so amazing because they
Just love helping and making a difference in the world. And this story is so inspiring. So. We’re gonna get into it. What do you think?
Emily: So excited.
AMD: Okay,
Emily: let’s do it.
AMD: So welcome into the room onto the podcast, beautiful guests. Today we have with us, Scarlett and Elizabeth, please say hello to our audience.
Scarlett: Hi.
Elizabeth: Hi. Thanks for having us.
AMD: Yes. Thank you so much for being here today. Just some quick questions up at the top. Can you please share with us your pronouns with our audience?
Scarlett: Sure.
She and her.
Elizabeth: Me as well. She and her.
AMD: Thank you. She and
her. Thank you. And. Other quick questions. Scarlett, do you identify as a sex worker?
Scarlett: Yes. Yes, I do.
AMD: Awesome. Awesome. And Elizabeth, what about you? Do you identify as a sex worker?
Elizabeth: No, but I identify as a sex worker, author,
Scarlett: and an advocate.
AMD: Yes,
Scarlett: and
an advocate. She’s an advocate.
AMD: Awesome.
Elizabeth: And an advocate.
Thank you, Scarlett. Yeah. And an advocate. [00:05:00] Yes.
AMD: Yes. Awesome. Well, we do have non-sex workers on the show at times who work adjacently with sex workers, especially in the realm of professional, um, you know, adventures. And so it’s, it doesn’t make a difference.
We just like the audience to know
Elizabeth: Sure.
AMD: Who they’re hearing from. So appreciate you answering that question. Thank you so much. Um. And so today we’re here to talk about your beautiful book, which I had such a pleasure reading your book. Um, it’s called Pleasure to Purpose.
Elizabeth: Yep. Yes.
AMD: Yes. And your story without taking the words out of your mouth, too much is about saving horses, being a sex worker and saving horses. And Scarlett, you’re the main character in the story, it’s about you and Elizabeth. You’re the author. Yes. Did I get that right?
Elizabeth: Yes.
Okay. You got it exactly right.
AMD: Yes.
So how did this all come to be?
Can you share with our audience how did you two come [00:06:00] together? Why? And just a quick synopsis on how this beautiful creation came to.
Elizabeth: Um, do you wanna take
that Scarlett?
Scarlett: Sure. So it was a mutual friend of ours named Darcy. Um, she’s a massage therapist for horses and she was, um, doing massage with my horse then, which is Franco.
He’s also in the book. Um, and you, I would tell people that I was a massage therapist ’cause you can’t just come out and say, Hey, I’m a sex worker. So I would say that to people, but you can’t say that to a massage therapist ’cause they’ll know instantly that you’re lying. Right. ’cause you know, um, right.
So I just told her, Hey, I’m a dominatrix. And, um, she thought it was cool. And she said, oh, I have a friend that’s an author and she wants to know your story. And that’s when, um, Elizabeth and I met for lunch. [00:07:00] And it was, I, I’d say like, what, three hours?
Elizabeth: Um, yeah.
Scarlett: And we just talked and, um, I pretty much. Was very honest and told her, you know, like how it was to be a sex worker and laid it every, all, all on the table.
AMD: So Nice.
Yeah.
AMD: That’s awesome. And what was that experience like for you, Elizabeth?
Elizabeth: Well, I didn’t know anything about this world and the reason I wanted to meet Scarlett is because. It occurred to me how empathetic she must be for the horses, but also to be a dominatrix and a sex worker,
I someone who gives so much of herself. Expecting very little in return has to be someone who has such a big heart and is so empathetic that that’s why I had to meet her. So, uh, we talked about horses for like two hours and 20 minutes. Wow. And then we moved on to the sex work bit side of business.
AMD: Wow.
Elizabeth: So, uh, it just was amazing and I left that [00:08:00] lunch. Realizing how little I knew and understood and wondering if I wanted to walk down this path for the next year or now two years that we’ve been working together.
AMD: Yeah,
yeah. Yeah. So, so this was two years that you, that since you’ve met, it’s only been two years.
Yeah.
Elizabeth: Right. Really Scarlett about?
Yeah.
Scarlett: Yeah. I, I think so. Yeah.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Maybe a little more, but mm-hmm. Not much.
AMD: I mean, there’s this just a huge turnaround to have like really got to know each other because the book is, is really in depth and, and so you must have spent a lot of time together during those two years.
Scarlett: Oh yeah.
Elizabeth: Well, we, we met once a week, uh, over the phone. Mm-hmm. And I would have my laptop on my lap and I literally would just take notes like Schroeder at the piano. And then every once in a while, you know, I’d stop because she’d say something that would just boggle my mind and we would dive in a little bit.
Um. Do you wanna talk about that Scarlett? Like your version of that us meeting for a year, at least for an hour every week. Right.
AMD: [00:09:00] Nice.
Scarlett: Yeah. I, I mean, yeah, I just pretty much just, you know, whatever, you know, I, I just answered everything. Honestly. Whatever questions she had, I would just say, you know, and just.
Was open and honest about everything, um, and, you know, gave her extreme insights into the industry and like what it is that sex workers go through and what, um, you know, what we do even like, you know, tips and tricks and stuff like that. So, yeah.
AMD: That’s awesome. So Elizabeth, how did writing Scarlett’s story change you and learning about sex work?
How, how did that all change you?
Elizabeth: Um,
I, all of my books are about darkness to light and not that sex work is dark in some, in some places it is for sure, but then a lot of other jobs are dark too.
AMD: Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth: But
understanding something that. Quote, [00:10:00] unquote polite society really doesn’t wanna hear about, they all perhaps engage in it, but they really don’t wanna know about it because to know about it makes the people human.
And if the people are human, then they need to figure out how they’re gonna care and they don’t wanna care. So that process changed me dramatically in terms of my understanding of sex work, my support of sex workers. And, um, just their lives in general. It really, now, when I talk to people, I go down the road very quickly and I really don’t let them turn away unless they really are just doing one of these that they don’t wanna talk about it.
You know, if the body language, if the doors cracked open even a little bit. You know, I, I will talk about it. So, um, that’s how it changed me. And Scarlett and I are friends. We still talk. We don’t need to talk every week, but we still talk every week.
AMD: Yep, sure.
Elizabeth: And we have a lot of things in common. We have a lot of things different in our [00:11:00] lives, but we have a commonality in empathy and purpose and a strong desire to learn.
So I feel honored that she’s my friend.
Scarlett: Me
too. Me
too.
Elizabeth: Thank you.
AMD: That’s really beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a, it’s a big decision to make, to tell your life story and to open up about sex work and family, which happened in your book. Um, and how was that, like, did you take that decision lightly based on like, what seems like an instant connection with Elizabeth like.
Did it just kind of seem like a no brainer to you or was there sort of like a process of, of thinking and considering before really opening up your whole world to a new person?
Scarlett: I. Um, I mean, like, the way that I felt about it was that, I mean, a lot of people have a lot of pushback with like sex work and they have this preconceived notion about it, and that’s [00:12:00] the standpoint I took was, yep, it’s it’s gonna happen.
There’s gonna be some preconceived notion, there’s gonna be like, you know, she’s gonna think this, this, and this about me. Um, and I just said to myself, you know what, if I’m just honest and just be myself, you know, hopefully she’ll see, you know, the real me and not this, you know, whatever society tells her.
Because at one point I was in the same situation when I first started sex work, right? Because like, it’s not like we ever, and I’m sure you know this, like sex workers don’t- It’s not some, it’s not like a career path, right? It’s not like something you just, you know, uh, say, okay, like today I’m gonna wake up and I’m gonna go become a sex worker.
Right? No,
Scarlett: nobody does that. You do it, most likely you do it outta desperation. Um, and I was looking at being homeless for the second time. And I didn’t wanna be homeless. ’cause the first time I almost died in a car, um, in the middle of winter. So [00:13:00] I said to myself, and unfortunately, like, you know, because society keeps telling you, oh, you know, all the clients are gonna treat horribly.
- This is gonna happen, this is gonna happen. Um, and after my first client, my eyes were kind of opened and I was like, wow, this is not what society says. This is not like anything that, you know, society’s lying to me. So, um, yeah, I took that experience and said, okay, if, if I can rely on society to tell me these lies.
You know, there’s gonna be everybody else in the world that’s relying on society to tell them the lies about sex workers. So that was the empathy that I took with me when I was talking to, to Beth
about it.
AMD: I see. Oh yeah. Yeah. And how did telling your story change you?
Scarlett: I mean, I don’t think it’s changed me at all.
I mean, my story’s my, my story, you know, it will always be my story. Um, it’s [00:14:00] just, you know, you go through things in life and you survive. And that’s what, that’s what changes you is the experience. All the experience in your life is what changes you and either changes you for the better or the worst. I think, you know, life has changed me for the better.
You know, like you learn from your experiences.
AMD: Yeah. Yeah. And having your book out there on shelves and are, have people reached out to you? Like, have you been hearing from people who your story resonates with? Have you made connections that way? Are people more curious about you and your story since it’s come out and since it’s been released for sale?
Scarlett: Well, it’s, it’s kind of funny ’cause my. Because my boyfriend, who was actually in the book named Thomas.
AMD: Yeah. Um,
yeah.
Scarlett: And he cannot keep his mouth shut about anything, so he’s like telling our neighbor about it. Um, in fact, he told our neighbor from the beginning that I was a sex worker. And I’m like, babe, that’s really not like [00:15:00] something just like.
Go out and tell people. And um, then when the book came out, he like gave him a copy of the book and then my neighbor like, kept coming up to me and he’s like, Hey, like, is this true? Like, does this really happen? Like, did this And, and like some of it, like, I mean, ’cause it, because it’s not, um, it’s not an autobiography, it’s a fictional autobiography.
So. Some of it is not like, like it’s not exactly as the timeline goes like in my life and some things are like exaggerated and some things are like changed a little bit. So like that’s why he had all these questions. So I kind of filled them into the real story. So like
AMD: Got it.
Scarlett: He’s asked
tons of questions.
Well, that’s nice. That must, that feels special to get some of that insider information. I think that’s pretty cool, actually. Um, and so as far as when it came to like the publishing journey, uh, were there any challenges that you were up against? Like, [00:16:00] did you- you know, sex work is a sensitive subject for some people, not for us obviously, but you know, with the publishing aspect.
Was there anything that you bumped up against where people said like, we don’t wanna do this, or, and were there any challenges and or wins, triumphs, anything like that? Um,
Elizabeth: well. We already had a publisher, my previous publisher of my previous two books wanted this book very badly.
AMD: Okay.
Elizabeth: Um, she thought the timing was perfect.
It was in the zeitgeist of, of- Anora hadn’t, the movie had not come out yet when this was born. I didn’t, we didn’t even know about that. So she kept saying, this book is gonna pop. This book is gonna, she really wanted it. So, um. No, she was very supportive. Van Velzor Press, Trish Lewis. Mm-hmm. Very supportive of the process and was super excited about it from the beginning.
The challenge, of course, is always marketing and that’s, I think, you know, [00:17:00] part of your question because how do you get this book out there? To people who don’t wanna hear about it. Like I said, you know, they, they wanna know, but they don’t wanna know because they’re not supposed to wanna know. So, right. So how do you do that?
And word of mouth is great. Reaching out to wonderful people like you AM and Emily who are kind enough to have us on, is a way to get it out there. Mm-hmm. Um, but it’s a tough, it is a tough book to market because I have 75 year olds who I thought would not be interested, who have read it. Some have read cover to cover.
Others said to me, um, I had to skip through some of the sex scenes because they were too graphic for me. But they loved Scarlett’s journey. They loved the arc of her character and how much she had grown and become more confident. And actually, can I touch on that for one quick second? Can I add to something that Scarlett said?
Um. She said that she hadn’t changed, and I think that from her perspective, [00:18:00] obviously, you know that’s true, right? Because that’s your opinion. My opinion is when I first started talking with her, she was initially almost defiant. I don’t know if you remember this, Scarlett. The first thing, one of the first things I said to her is, were you nervous about meeting me?
And her answer, one of the first things I, I asked her and she said, why would I be nervous? You have nothing on me. And that was our, and I was like, that was true.
AMD: Oh, wow.
Elizabeth: Yeah. And so I was like, oh, okay. And that’s when I knew that it was gonna be a journey and that this was a process. So I think that Scarlett, for obvious reasons, once you read the book, does not, gives her heart so graciously and openly and often gets hurt.
That’s a fair statement, right?
Scarlett: Yeah, true
Elizabeth: okay. And so I, I, again, I’m. So thrilled that she took a chance on me. But I do think that while we were doing the book, she called me one day, a regular phone call every Thursday at 10:00 AM and she’s like, guess what? And I said, what? And she said, I have a [00:19:00] boyfriend.
Well, this is the woman who had said, I will not have a boyfriend. This is not compatible with sex work. And I was like. What? And I said, does he wanna be in the book? And she goes, hold on babe, you wanna be in the book? I was like, he’s there. And so the book took a left turn and of course, as is always the case was so much better because of it.
So that happened and you became Scarlett politically active. You had been somewhat active, but. She became much more vocal, and I am assuming I am putting this in your mouth and shut me down if I’m wrong, because I know you will ’cause I love you, but that I feel like you’re more confident. I feel like you are more willing to put yourself out there because this- this worked for you, like it gave you voice. I’m not saying I gave you voice. Tell me agree. The story gave you voice.
Scarlett: No, I agree. I I do agree. Yeah.
And I, I think that, I mean, the journey hasn’t ended. I, I do plan on working with Coyote Rhode Island, um mm-hmm. To, um, fight [00:20:00] for sex worker rights because, um, I feel if any state, I mean, I know what is it Illinois is up for to try to decriminalize.
AMD: Yeah.
Scarlett: But after that, I think that because Rhode Island had that loophole. For, what, eight years? Mm-hmm. I think, I think they’re next to decriminalize if, hopefully if Illinois, um, decriminalizes. And because we can’t go the way of the Nordic model with Maine because That’s right. That’s just, that’s just horrible.
So,
AMD: yeah, that’s no good.
Scarlett: No, no, not at all. And you know, is it the, the same people that will, you know, state about, oh, well we’re, we’re trying to get rid of, you know, sex trafficking and all this stuff. Not that one has to do with the other, but sometimes they intersect. Um. I mean, how, how do you do that? If, if you’re making the one person that’s gonna see it, which is the client, he can’t [00:21:00] report it.
I mean, that’s kind of like, it’s stupid. There’s, there’s no, like, how do, how do you. Yeah.
How do you stop
it?
Mm-hmm.
AMD: Yeah. Yeah. And straight up sex workers are like, we don’t want partial decrim, we want full decrim. And they just don’t.
Scarlett: Exactly.
AMD: They’re not listening. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. So that’s awesome.
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AMD: Thank you for doing that work in Rhode Island. Um, it’s really, really important work. Decriminalization is like top of the list work, so that’s awesome. Thank you for doing that. [00:22:00] Um, and speaking of your work that you do for others, can you share with us the type of work that you do for horses without giving away too much of the book?
Scarlett: Well, I, I used to help run a horse rescue that’s actually not in the book. I was the vice president and treasurer and, um, the woman that was running it, um, she had gotten, um, cancer and terminal cancer. And I helped her out for a year, um, when she was unhealthy enough to not. Uh, and this is all not part of the book, but, um, so when we got Franco, I had contacted another rescue, um, because there was a horse named Xena.
She’s actually in the book and that is her real name. Um, Xena’s Stall mate, um, passed away. [00:23:00] Well, she was put down because of Laminitis that was very, um, painful and needed to be put down. Actually, she needed to be put down probably a week before she was. Um, but that wasn’t my decision. I. So after, and this was after, um, the woman died and I was, uh, helping to manage the rescue.
And then so I contacted another rescue to say, do you have a horse that we can, you know, um, foster. Because if these two horses don’t get along, I don’t wanna be saddled with a horse when these two horses hate each other. Um, because the problem with horses is they’re like humans. You know, some people love each other, some people hate each other.
Some people can tolerate each other. That’s just how it is. Um. And they, they hit it off from the bat, from right off the bat. But unfortunately the woman that was really running the rescue, like I said, I was just the vice president and treasurer. I wasn’t the president. [00:24:00] She thought it would be a great idea for her to get paid off of these horses by giving them ride, having riding lessons.
And it’s just completely unethical that, you know, these horses are either, should be retired, one of them, which is Franco, was a hospice case. He had vestibular cystitis and, um, we didn’t know how long he was gonna live, but you know, he’s, he’s on hospice. You don’t ride a hospice case horse, you know.
Right.
And so I, the good friend that I had that ran the other rescue, I, you know, I’m not the type to hold anything back from anybody, especially since it’s technically their, their rescue’s horse. It’s not ours. And I told her exactly what was going on and she said, well, you got two choices. Either I can come and get my horse or you can adopt him.
So I thought, okay, well maybe it’s a good idea if I adopt him, because then I won’t be taking him away from the kids that are kind [00:25:00] of connected to this horse, and then I can have say over him so that way she won’t give riding lessons and trying to get paid off of him.
AMD: Right.
Scarlett: And I got kicked into the rescue anyways, and so I had to bring, I brought him to Rhode Island and he lived for six months after that.
And, but he had the best six months of his life, the, the way he should have been because he was a standard breaded racing horse. Mm-hmm. And he was used and abused all his life, and he didn’t know what it was to be loved. Um, and in fact, when he did learn what it was to be loved, he trembled. Um, I swear, I think this horse almost cried, um, because he, it was so overwhelming for him to finally realize somebody loved him.
Elizabeth: And that’s in the book?
That scene is in the book where he, yeah.
AMD: I think I did cry when I read that.
Elizabeth: Me too.
AMD: ’cause I don’t wanna cry right now.
Elizabeth: Me too.
Scarlett: I don’t wanna cry too.
Mean I, I wish I had more time with [00:26:00] Franco. I really do. He was, he was the best horse that ever lived. So.
Elizabeth: Well Franco is what drew us together in the end, because I had decided I wasn’t gonna write the book.
Yeah. And I called Scarlett. Uh, I said, I’d love to meet Franco ’cause I was gonna break the news in person. And she, I texted her and said, I’d love to meet Franco. And, um, she picked up the phone and called me and said I had to put him down. And I, that was our first, more than an hour long phone call. And by the end of the phone call I was like, we’re doing the book.
So Franco was a star in the harness race and circuit. He was the star in Scarlett’s eyes and he is literally the catalyst that made this book happen.
AMD: Oh
my God. What a beautiful creature.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Thank
AMD: you for sharing that. I did a good job. I didn’t, I didn’t actually cry, but I really, really wanted to right now.
Um, do you think so, [00:27:00] um, Emily also identifies as a sex worker who’s on this call, on the podcast with us right now, and, and you, Scarlett and I, all three of us are like, we love animals and we’re taking care of animals. What do you think? Why do you think that is? Do you think that sex workers are just more likely to have empathy for animals and humans, like because of the work that we do?
Like, are we inherently more like empathetic. Like, what, what do you think about that? Have you examined that at all?
Scarlett: Um, well, I, I think that we are, we are definitely more empathetic because we have to be that way with our clients. Okay. Um, but I, I mean, honestly, I don’t know what your pasts are. I know what my past is and I’m sure you obviously know what Mike has.
’cause of the book. Um, yeah, but I, I think it has to do a lot with saving something because I was never saved and, [00:28:00] sorry, don’t cry again. It’s okay. It’s okay. Um, I guess, well, I shouldn’t say that I was saved when things got bad at home and I could escape to a barn and be with horses. Horses were my savior.
They will always be my savior and I’m very grateful for them. And I just, I think of them as a sacred animal because they, as much as we, I mean, I just mean humans. Not, not we, um, but humans use and abuse them all the time and they are so, um, forgiving. You know, um, it takes a lot for a horse to become this angry animal that goes after humans and tries to kill them.
Like, it, it, like, it’s, it’s almost unheard of. Do you know what I mean? And Yeah. Horses, you know, plus they’re also like a mirror. They’re a mirror to us. Like if we, if you have a bad day and you’re angry [00:29:00] and you don’t wanna be around people, guess what? A horse is not gonna be, want to be around you either.
Hmm. And they’ll show you, they’ll, they’re very honest. They’ll show you who you are. Um,
AMD: yeah.
Scarlett: So, yeah.
AMD: That’s really beautiful. Thank you.
Scarlett: You’re welcome.
AMD: Whew. All the feelings. I, that’s what I loved about your book too, is I was angry at times. Um, and I’ll, well, I think one of my, my next question you’ll understand at what points I was angry and I was, you know, there were times that I was laughing, there were times that I was crying.
Um, there were times where I was like waiting to see what was going to happen. So I, you know, that’s a testament to not only your story, Scarlett, but the, the amazing writing that you did, Elizabeth. It was really, um, it was, I felt all these different things reading it, which is, I, I personally feel like that’s what I wanna get out of a book.
I wanna, I wanna have an experience, and that’s [00:30:00] how I felt. I, I got to experience Scarlett’s life and that, um, and how beautiful and challenging and triumphant it is. And, um, yeah, I just wanted to acknowledge that. What do,
Scarlett: thank
you.
AMD: Do you have anything you wanna, does that bring up anything for you? Scarlett.
Elizabeth: Oh, for me. I’m sorry. I thought you meant Elizabeth.
AMD: I actually was asking Elizabeth
Elizabeth: Oh, oh me.
AMD: You’re the one one who wrote it? Yeah. Oh,
Elizabeth: oh yeah. I was a mess. When I would write these scenes, I was an absolute mess. Whenever I’m, because I am there, I am there. When I’m writing these scenes, the details are all clear to me.
And oh, I was a complete disaster. And, um, but I also knew that at the core of everything was Scarlett’s, honor, empathy, integrity, honesty, so. That drove the dialogue. My, my favorite line in the book is, is I [00:31:00] don’t, I won’t swear on the podcast, but when,
AMD: but you can.
It’s okay.
Elizabeth: Oh, I can. Okay.
AMD: Yeah.
Elizabeth: So
her, her uncle’s like, you know, oh, this prince to come sweep you off your feet.
And she says something like, I’m writing my own fucking fairytale, because that encompasses everything that is really Scarlett, which is hope, integrity, forthrightness. So that’s what drove everything. But yeah, I took so much time. Spoiler alert, but it’s not a big spoiler ’cause it’s on the back of the book.
But I took so much time with Franco’s death scene. I think that took me two days. I. Hmm. Because everything had to be right. And you know, Scarlett read every chapter of the book. I would write them and then send them to her in chunks and she’d say, this is right. Tweak this, whatever. So we really were a team.
But thank you for the kind words. That means a lot.
AMD: Yeah, of course.
Elizabeth: Thank you.
AMD: Yeah, of course. Thank you. And so, okay, so the times that I was like irritated was this one [00:32:00] particular character in the book who was, and it wasn’t until I read to the end of the book, so if I say something I’m not supposed to, I don’t wanna give any spoil alert, just tell me and we’ll edit it out.
Okay. But I didn’t find out until the end that this person was an amalgamation of more than one person in your story. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And they were-
And they were so annoying and hideous and did hideous things in the book. And, um, I also got a sense that they were, you know, hugely whorephobic. Um, and I was just hoping we could unpack some of that, those experiences that you had with this character in the book. Um, again, without giving away too much, but I’m getting that right.
Like there definitely was some whorephobia happening there.
Yes. Right?
Elizabeth: Yes. You’re talking about
AMD: Serenity. Yes.
Thank you. Yes.
Elizabeth: All right. So she was a, you, you talked to this Scarlett, but she was an [00:33:00] amalgamation of a bunch of people. Right?
Scarlett: Right, right. Um, so like, so the rescue, um, the person that was actually the president, um, she wasn’t per se, whorephobic. Um. She’s just a bad person in general. That’s the one that wanted to make money off the horses.
AMD: Oh no. Okay. Oh gosh. Okay.
Scarlett: But when I went with Franco, um, to Rhode Island, um, the Mar the barn manager of the place, um. Because she, she was just realizing that I had all this money and I was like, how, how are you getting all this money? Like, how, how are you so rich? How, because like I paid the board a year in advance, like, let’s put it that way.
Um, and I was there all the time and like money was no issue to me and I had no problem with it. And, um. I guess it was like, how do I explain things? And [00:34:00] finally I came out to tell her what I was. And then when Franco died, when she owed me six months of board and wouldn’t, wouldn’t let, allow me to have another horse.
’cause that was my whole thing. I always wanted to rescue another one. Um, because the slaughter pipeline is real. And we send horses either to Canada or um, Mexico to get slaughtered because unfortunately there are enough homes in America for all the horses that we have.
AMD: I’m like,
shocked. I didn’t know that that was a thing.
Yeah, yeah. I’m shocked right now.
Scarlett: So one of the biggest industries that unfortunately breeds a lot is, you know, thoroughbred racing. And standard bred racing is another one. So, um, I believe the last time I looked at the figures, they, there is 40,000 thoroughbreds that are born each year just so one of them can win the Kentucky Derby.
So there aren’t 40,000 homes each year [00:35:00] for those horses. So that’s where they end up. We also have a problem with Bureau of Land Management rounds up wild horses. They’ve also finally admitted to sending them to slaughter because, you know, our, um, ranchers for cattle and sheep and whatnot, um, they want that same land that the wild horses are grazing on to graze their cattle, which it’s public land.
It really should be for the wild horses. But that also is another area where we send those horses to slaughter. Um, then you have, you know, the owners that, you know, they just wanna win a ribbon off a horse. They don’t care about the horse in general, and they’re only value is if they win the blue ribbon.
Which is first prize. And if they don’t, they can’t afford the horse or they [00:36:00] send them, they sell them. And you know, eventually the horse might end up in slaughter to an auction and then pass down to slaughter. So that’s why I always wanna rescue another one because I mean, if I had all the money in the world, I would make sure we don’t send any horses to slaughter.
But unfortunately I have limited means. Um, yeah. But yeah, that was, and um, actually, I ended up taking this woman to court. Um, for the amount of money she owed me and she even passed a note. ’cause unfortunately in Rhode Island you don’t, uh, automatically go right to a judge, um, for small claims. You have a mediation first.
And she passed a note to the mediators explaining that I was a sex worker because after they read the note, their attitudes changed toward me. Um, so yeah, definitely. Um, yeah,
but that’s okay. I made her look bad anyways because I [00:37:00] told them how she lost her disability because she was lying to the government. Um,
Elizabeth: and, and also the tax issue, right. Scarlett?
Scarlett: Um, I’m, I’m not sure about, uh, because I know the land was owned by her, her parents.
Elizabeth: Oh, okay.
Scarlett: I, I don’t know about taxes per se.
I know that she claimed to disability court that she wasn’t making any money and she was poor, um, which she perjured herself in court, which I explained to them. And she actually admitted that in the mediation that she lost her disability because she perjured herself. So.
Elizabeth: Yeah, I see. I think I changed that to the tax issue in the book.
Oh, okay. I think that’s what that was. See I’m, see I’m blurring. It’s all blurring.
AMD: Sure.
I’m sure. I’m sure. Um, wow. I had no clue of the situation with horses and what they’re going through. Um, that’s just devastating to hear. Yeah. But then again, I think [00:38:00] that all slaugthering of animals is devastating, which is why I don’t eat meat.
Scarlett: Um, me Me too. In the same,
same
way. Vegetarian.
AMD: Yeah.
So, wow. Um, thank you for sharing that. ’cause I think probably a lot of people don’t really know that unless you’re like, specifically looking into that. Um, so in, in closing, in wrapping up this awesome conversation. Um, what would you like for this book to accomplish for the readers?
What do you want them to get out of it? And it could be more than one thing, obviously, but
Scarlett: Oh
yeah. I, I would love there to be less of a stigma for sex workers ’cause stigma kills, um. I mean, that’s what killed, I mean, that’s why the Gilgo Beach Killer kept
AMD: Yep.
Scarlett: Was continually killing because every time, you know, the girls would constantly tell the police, Hey, my friend, um, was with this guy.
I know his [00:39:00] address. I know where he lives. I can give you a description. Oh no, you’re a liar. Because you’re just a prostitute, so you’re a liar. We, we don’t believe you. Um, when they could have, they could have stopped him years before he actually got caught. So, I mean, that’s the biggest thing that I would like to have it have accomplished.
Um, okay. The other thing would be obviously. Which I, I don’t know that, you know, I don’t think everyone in America’s gonna start rescuing a horse, but it would be nice, you know, I know they’re expensive animals,
AMD: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I definitely, I want to help a horse now. Like, I’ll be, I’ve always loved horses, but now I’m like.
I’m gonna wanna help more. Emily, don’t get any ideas. I can see your brain working in the background. She’s always trying to get me to save more animals.
Scarlett: Well, you, you could always volunteer at a horse rescue to just get your feet wet [00:40:00] and see where that,
AMD: I would
love to do something like that. Idea. I would love it’s a, to do something like that.
Elizabeth: Great idea.
AMD: And, and Elizabeth, what about you for that question? What do you want the book to do for accomplish, for its readers?
Elizabeth: Well, especially now, when it is so easy to divide the world into us and them, whoever they are and whoever we are, um, the divide is so wide and first and foremost, we have to identify people as human.
And that that bleed the same and have feelings. As soon as you start to push that away, you may as well go back to 1938 Nazi German. It just does. Mm-hmm. It’s all the same thing over and over again. Yeah. So my goal is that people see. Scarlett and all the folks who do work like Scarlett as human first.
Mm-hmm. And they’re not desperate, they’re not broken, they’re not this, they’re not that. They are human and they are- feel [00:41:00] just the way you feel.
Yeah.
So that’s my goal. And, and when I talk to people, they get it. And, and you know, and they might look a little differently than what they did before or even give it thought.
’cause quite frankly, most people haven’t, they literally shut down and they won’t even have a conversation, which means they’re scared. And when we’re scared, we create us and them, because that’s the easy way out. Mm-hmm. So my goal is that we humanize everybody, but in this case, sex workers. So that they’re treated equally.
Yeah. Yeah.
AMD: Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. How do we tell everyone like exactly where to go, where to find the book, where to find you, Scarlett and Elizabeth, if we have social medias that we wanna share, this is the time to do all of that.
Elizabeth: You wanna go first, Scarlett?
Scarlett: Um, I don’t know. I mean, I do have a Facebook, Facebook under Scarlett [00:42:00] Pereira, but I mean, I’m out of Boston, so.
Elizabeth: Okay, so you’re Scarlett Pereira on Facebook and you can get the book on Amazon, the best and worst thing that ever happened to Books or, but actually you can get it more cheaply if you go to my website, which is elizabeth splain author.com.
Um, you can find all of my social media there as well. I’m on Twitter, Insta, Facebook. I have a TikTok that I do every day, so, okay. Um, all on my website.
AMD: Great. And let’s say the full title of the book again for our audience so that they can hear that.
Elizabeth: Pleasure To purpose the True Story of Sex Worker Scarlett Pereira.
AMD: Nice.
Thank you so much. Thank you so much. You’re so welcome. It’s been such an honor and a pleasure to get to know you better and to hear some more insider details, um, of this book. And I highly recommend this book to our audience. It was such a great read. It was one of those that, um, like, you [00:43:00] know, I just kept reading it.
I, you know, I, I think I read it in about four or five sessions total. I just kept reading. Wow. So it was really great to read. Um, so I definitely highly recommend this to our community and to recommend it to your friends and family too, especially animal lovers. Um, ’cause there’s definitely a lot to learn from this book.
So just thank you so much for your work, for, for writing the book and for sharing your story, Scarlett, and for both of you, um, being on the show. It’s been such a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much.
Elizabeth: Thank you so much, and Emily, thanks for your production.
AMD: Yeah.
Well, um, I almost cried a couple of times. Um, same,
Emily: same, same. Same. Okay.
AMD: Okay. Was it just me? Okay. That was hard to hear that about the horses. That was hard. That made me really sad.
Emily: Yeah, I mean, rescuing is hard. In every sense of the word, you know? Um, but especially when you’re, when you’re kind of on the front [00:44:00] lines, you know?
And, uh,
AMD: yeah. And like, what is wrong with people? What is wrong with people?
Emily: I know,
AMD: seriously. Um, anyways, I, I gave you the book. To read before this episode.
I know. Did you flip through it at all? I did. There’s actually, I, there was, uh, two sentences in, uh, um, in one chapter that has resonated and I can’t stop thinking about it.
Can I say, can I read it?
Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Say it. Say it.
Emily: Okay. I’m so excited. So two sentences. I’m not gonna give any context. I don’t want to ruin anything. Okay. If you make a decision out of desperation, you’re putting yourself on the defense from the start. You must act in order to survive. If you become complacent, you might place yourself in danger.
That’s it. No more context, just those two sentences. Yeah, but I feel like it’s just, there’s like so many things that I’ve thought about and I’m like, wow, wait, if I do it out of desperation. [00:45:00]
Yes. It’s not the.
AMD: Yes. I forget about that. Like I’ve, every and every time I remember that, oh, I, I made that decision out of Desper, like you shouldn’t make decisions out of desperation is when I’ve already done it and I’m like, ah, I’m supposed to know that.
Emily: Right. Supposed to know that and then becoming
complacent is just as dangerous. Right.
AMD: Exactly. Yes. Yes. Well, I’m so excited for this episode to hit the airwaves, and I’m so grateful to you for being here with me today, making sure everything went smoothly. You’re an awesome producer, awesome teammate.
Emily: Thank you so much for having me.
AMD: You’re so welcome. Um, and just to remind everybody of a couple of things, we are now a tax exempt organization, so we love donations. And now your donations are considered a tax write off. So there’s that. If you wanna donate, you can go to yes work.org/donate. And also the Yes store is always [00:46:00] live and ready to take your shopping.
So, uh, hit that store up. We’ve got, we collaborate with artists. Emily is one of our collabs, actually, Emily, you are the designer of the Jesus Love Stripper shirt, which was our bestseller.
Emily: So exciting. So, so many more ideas too.
AMD: So funny.
Emily: There’s more coming.
There’s so many more coming.
AMD: So, so shopping at the YAS Store means profit sharing with a whole bunch of sex workers. So if you’re gonna shop anywhere, you should shop somewhere where you get their, your money gets dispersed to different sex worker artists. And that is, yasstore.shop, YAS. Store shop, and I think that’s it. Make sure you like rate and subscribe, do all those things.
Follow us on Spotify, follow us on YouTube, and um, we will be in your ears next week. Thanks so much for listening. Bye.