YAS Podcast: Mx. Pucks A’Plenty #140 Transcript
In this episode of YAS Podcast, host Daisy Ducati speaks with Mx. Pucks A’Plenty, a burlesque performer, producer, and sex educator based in Seattle. The conversation explores Mx. Pucks A’Plenty’s journey into burlesque, their identities as a Black, fat, non-binary, queer, and disabled individual, and how these have shaped their activism and performance. They also discuss the challenges of organizing sex-positive events, the importance of centering BIPOC voices in burlesque, and the impact of the current political climate on funding for arts and DEI efforts. The episode highlights the creation and significance of events like What the Funk Festival and Fat Con.
*This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* Begin transcript after opening credits.
Daisy: Hello, how are you? Hi.
AMD: Hi. I’m good. How are you? What’s up, Daisy?
Daisy: I’m doing amazing.
AMD: Uh, you’re today’s host. Yeah.
Daisy: Yes.
I’m so excited to talk to Mx. Pucks A’Plenty.
AMD: I am excited too. Um, this was, we put a call out onto social media looking for [00:01:00] L-G-B-T-Q-I-A voices very specifically, and the response was overwhelming.
But I gotta tell you, Mx. Pucks A’Plenty was the first they were like. Right on top of it. So I am so excited for you two to have a chat and for our audience to learn more about Mx. Pucks A’Plenty. But obviously you’re the host today, you’re the boss, you’re gonna do all of this, and I can’t wait to just sit back and relax and watch y’all.
Daisy: I’m so excited. This is gonna be such a good conversation.
AMD: Absolutely.
Daisy: Well, so we are here with, uh, Pucks. How are you today?
Pucks: I’m good. How are you, Daisy?
Daisy: I am Amazing. Before we get started with our interview, um, what are your pronouns?
Pucks: My pronouns are they them? Yes, queen. They aren’t preferred. They just are. Please and thank you.
Daisy: I love it. [00:02:00]
So what have you been up to lately?
Why don’t we give our listeners a little introduction? I.
Pucks: Oh. Um, so, uh, I am a burlesque performer and producer based in Seattle, Washington. I’ve been doing burlesque for about eight years. Um, and I am a, a sex and kink and queer theory educator, uh, consultant model, pro dom parent. I kind of do a lot of different things.
I do the most. All the time. Um, I produce two burlesque festivals here in Seattle, uh, what The Funk and All People of Color Burlesque Festival and Fat Less Fest Northwest, which is focused on plus size performers. And, uh, currently in my current, current, uh, obsession right now is, uh, I turned 40 last year.
And so I’m in this health kick of trying to make [00:03:00] sure that like the form. Isn’t crumbling and falling apart, gotta keep the foundation strong. Totally. So a lot of my focus as of late has been on like, rest as like a radical form of like, you know, disruption, you know, in a, in, in capitalism, in the face of capitalism and all of that.
Yes. So, yeah.
Daisy: Amen.
Pucks: That’s what I’m doing.
Daisy: I love it. So I noticed you describe yourself as black, fat, non-binary, queer and disabled. How have these identities shaped your relationship with performance, pleasure, and activism?
Pucks: Well, I mean, I think that, uh, I mean, looking at each of, of these identifiers for myself, uh, you know, starting with the fact of just being black and being, um, in, in a, you know, assigned female at birth body, uh, black, uh, fems have a [00:04:00] lot of, uh, expectation and heavy baggage on our body.
Um, uh, too much and not enough. All in the same, same breath. So, you know, I just remember being, you know, younger and kind of coming into my body and out of, you know, I started maturing at an early age, um, about 10 or 11, and just really having people on kind of all sides of, of everything, having comments and things to say about my body.
And a lot of it was like hypersexualized because like I started developing my chest early and I was really hippy and, you know, um, so I kind of had a disdain for my, my body, um, at, at a fairly early, early age, probably about 10 or 11. Um, and then being, you know, being fat- I’ve been fat for all of my adult life.
There is [00:05:00] kind of this, um, like- There are kind of two baskets we put fat people in when it comes to like their sexuality and, and pleasure. Um, either you have to be hypersexual because who would want to be with you and, and, and touch you anyway. Um, so there’s like, you know, you, you have to be, you have to, you put out because then no one wanna be with you or there’s just like this complete kind of asexuality that’s placed on fat people.
Well, no one’s attracted to fat bodies, so clearly you’re not getting any. Um, and so, and there’s kind of never really an in-between in that, in that zone. So it took me quite some time to be like confident sexually in a fat body. And that’s mostly because of, you know, societal pressures. Um, I came out as non-binary,
pretty late in life. Uh, I’ve been out as non-binary for eight years now. Um, and I think it is, uh, it has enhanced [00:06:00] my comfort in my body. Um, I don’t feel like I’m stuck to using certain words or things that are, or gendered or not gendered. It’s kind of, it’s kind of created a lot more freedom around like my sexual expression and like how I seek pleasure. Um, queer is mostly so that cys-het men don’t speak to me.
Daisy: That’s, that’s so real.
Pucks: Um, don’t, don’t talk to me. Um, I’ve been, uh, I’ve been queer my whole life. I, I knew fairly early. I was about nine. My first like crush crush that I could articulate, uh mm-hmm was a woman. I was watching Batman Returns and Michelle Pfeiffer in the catsuit was everything. And I remember being about nine when that movie came out and just being like, I don’t know what it is, but she’s appealing. Um, you know, and then, you know, disabled folks, there’s just a whole bunch of, you know, um, [00:07:00] ignorance surrounding, uh, you know our sexuality and our pleasure and, and all of that. So, I mean, all of these identities separately kind of come with their own baggage. But, um, yeah, I mean in terms of like performance, um, and activism, I mean, self-preservation is a big motivating factor in activism, I think great. Uh, I don’t think he gets enough credit, like at all of like, why would I not be out here screaming for, you know, fat liberation and, and, and black liberation and, you know, uh, fighting for queer rights. These things actually affect my everyday life. So there like, and I think that people feel like that is like selfish or self serving. Um, but if we don’t have, if we don’t protect ourselves, if we don’t take care of ourselves, we’re not looking out for our own interests in some ways.
Mm-hmm. What’s the point?
Daisy: That makes perfect sense,
Pucks: right?
[00:08:00] Yeah.
Daisy: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Like we really have to look out for the ways that we are having to struggle.
Pucks: Absolutely.
Daisy: Um, uh. So you mentioned not serving androgyny before. Um, can you unpack the tension there between mainstream queer aesthetics and how you show up in your body and your work?
Pucks: Yeah, I mean, I think that like, I think there’s this, this assumption that non-binary folks owe, owe people androgyny. That that is what mm-hmm. The, the goal is for, um, you know, for, uh, non-binary folks, and I mean. No, uh, not for me. Uh, it’s, it’s never really been, I, I, I won’t like, kind of the poster trial for like, what we think of.
I think what people think of when they think of androgyny is like a Tilda Whitten kind of person, you know? Mm-hmm. [00:09:00] Um, you know, straight sized abled bodied white and kind of this like, you know, gender ambiguous kind of person. Um, like I have no plans on having top surgery. Um, my breasts do not cause me gender dysmorphia at all. Uh, they are just here. They’re two bags of fat, um, that are very, very, very, very fun to have on a person, um, but I also think that like androgyny in the way that, that it’s portrayed in media and, and how people think of it, um, it’s also like really rooted in classism, like to be able to afford like all the cute androgynous outfits and they don’t really make a lot of like gender euphoric, non-binary esque kind of things for plus size bodies. Mm-hmm. We have some really neat, like dapper wear stuff [00:10:00] that, you know, is for, for plus size bodies, but a lot of it’s really plain looking. Or it doesn’t go up past a certain size. Like they cap out at like three X and you’re just like, great, my titties ain’t fitting in this top like at all.
And you want me to button it up too? There’s no way. Um, yeah. You know, so, um, I really think that like a lot of this androgyny talk is really centered around like the euro standard of, of beauty, yet again, poking its head into, um, a non-binary space. Um, you know, a gender fluid space. It’s really fascinating how much, um, whiteness can like penetrate different aspects of things that are supposed to be, um, breaking away from the binary, breaking away from colonialism, breaking away from these different things and how we’re just like we run into it, even in these different movements, in these different, um, places of expression that’s insidious really.[00:11:00]
Daisy: Totally. Totally. Um, so what does endurance mean to you in the context of pride in your journey through queerness, gender, and visibility?
Pucks: I mean, you know, I think that a lot of us queer folks, a lot of us marginalized folks in general, but queer folks like this is an ongoing like attack on, on who we are as people.
Um, you know, every time, like, it’s just, it’s baffling when you hear folks being like, uh, like trans people, they’re new. And it’s like, no, no, no, no, no. Like we trans folks have existed. Nobody or folks have existed. Queer folks have been here. Um, the, it’s this time, right? The whole time it’s this continued erasure and having to rebuild.
Um, you know, and it’s, it’s very smart. It’s what, it’s what folks do when they want to raise something that’s really important. I truly believe that queer people are [00:12:00] like divine, divine individuals, right? Um, you know, a lot of us are reaching this place, you know, in our, in our journey. We’re like, you know, love is love and, um, you know gender is, whatever. So it’s like all these different things that push at these rules that are meant to constrain people and force people into these boxes and queer folks continue to, um, put our foot down and say that we exist. And you know, I remember the first like gay person I met was this kid in, in middle school.
And I remember thinking, why, why is he doing this? Like, ’cause they, and it wasn’t because of anything that he was doing per se, it was, he was getting like shoved into lockers and beat up after school. And I’m just like, no one would choose this. Yeah. No one would actively make this choice knowing that this is how they’re going to be treated [00:13:00] and that has always been like this huge visual reminder in my head of what it means to endure. It means, you know, to show up as your full self, your full, authentic self, knowing that there are people who are gonna place judgment on you, that want you to be harmed, that don’t think that you should have any rights, um, that want to dehumanize you and don’t see you as as human.
Um. That takes a level of strength that I just, I am enamored with queer people, um mm-hmm. All the time where I’m just like, we have, we continue to face this erasure of our history and we’re just like, Nope, nope, nope. We’re gonna stand here. We’re gonna be here. And so, um, you know, it’s a, the queer existence is a, uh, marathon.
For sure.
Daisy: It’s, it’s [00:14:00] a constant struggle, but it doesn’t end. It just evolves, you know? Mm-hmm.
Pucks: Absolutely. Yes.
Daisy: So, I’ve been checking out some of your burlesque that you’ve posted online, and you are incredible. I just wanna throw that out there. Um, how did you first find your way into burlesque?
Pucks: Um, I discovered burlesque a.
Almost, uh, like almost 15 years ago, um, I had just had my son and we were struggling to get him down for a nap. So it’s like, okay, we’re gonna watch, we’re gonna watch some Netflix and hopefully we can get this kid to go to bed so I can take a nap too. And I found this documentary called A Wink and a Smile.
Um, it’s about burlesque, it talks a little bit about burlesque history, but it showed this like group of women, um, taking a intro to burlesque, [00:15:00] um, program. And it happened to be in Seattle where I’m based out of, and it happened to be with Miss Indigo Blue at her academy, and I was just like, hooked, hooked, hooked, hooked.
Yeah. Um, and so I, you know, typed into the internet, I need to go to a burlesque show. And the first burlesque show I went to, um. It was like all white cast, all straight sized. Like it was very much so like going to the ballet and being like, oh, ah, this is not what my body can’t do this, but, um, I can enjoy it and I can appreciate it.
And so that’s how I always felt about burlesque for a really long time, was I don’t think it’s actually something that I can do, but I am, I can appreciate it and love it and, and support it and, um. About, uh, nine years ago I was working on a fundraising event for, um, the Center for Sex Positive Culture.
And they’re like, let’s do a cabaret burlesque show. And so I got to meet all these, [00:16:00] um, burlesque performers and they were really, really encouraging. I took a drop in class, uh, with Miss Indigo Blue and she’s like, yeah, we got this eight week program thing. You should do it. And I’m like. Sure, yeah, I’ll do it.
And so I did it with the intention of I’m marking an item off my bucket list and I’ll do it and I’ll do my recital and I’ll never think about this again. And, um, yeah. So here we are eight years later. Um, I’ve been ranked in the top 50 of most influential burlesque figures in the world, uh, four years in a row.
Uh, like I said, I have these two burlesque festivals. I do. I’ve gotten to travel all over the US in parts of Canada. Um, I’ve headlined in places, which is just wild to say. Oh yeah. Uh, you know, as a fat, black, disabled, non-binary performer, like being able to say that someone actually like reached out to you ’cause they wanted you to headline an [00:17:00] event that they’re doing is a huge honor.
Um. The furthest I furthest away from home I performed is Panama. Um, yeah. And I plan on going to France at the end of the year to perform. So yeah.
Daisy: That’s awesome.
That’s so exciting. Yeah. I’m excited. I’m glad. I’m glad you took the leap and took the course and became the force that you are today.
Pucks: Me too.
Me too.
Daisy: And there’s, it’s burlesque is so much fun. It’s so much fun. Yeah. I love it.
Pucks: It’s, it really, it really is. How long have you been doing burlesque?
Daisy: I’ve been doing burlesque for off and on for about six years now. Nice. Um, and I’ve also had the issue of like, I don’t necessarily fit into this certain style that is popular with burlesque, so I [00:18:00] had to kind of like create my own space and create my own shows and do things the way that I wanna do them.
And sometimes that’s how you have to do it. And
Absolutely. You have to hold onto your own creativity with it.
Pucks: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s, it’s something that, um, when we’re looking at the, like the, the bios for all the performers for my festival with What the Funk, especially, most of the performers are usually about 40.
Most of them have a producer or co-producer credit somewhere in their bio. Um, you know, you see a need and, and you fill it. You know, you see, you see this, this, the lack of, or you want to, uh, kind of stretch, stretch, you know what is known about this particular art form. And so you have to be the person to, to create it.
No one’s gonna do it for you.
Daisy: Exactly, exactly. So what role has burlesque played [00:19:00] in your healing, especially over the past few years when you’ve been navigating illness?
Pucks: Um. I think that, I think that burlesque has, uh, it’s contributed to kind of the decline in my health in some ways .
i’m autistic. And burlesque became a, is a, a special interest. Like, you know, it’s like this is, uh, yeah, my son is autistic and he is like really into trains, Sonic the hedgehog and world history. And my special interests are burlesque and kink. Um, like I can’t go more than- I can’t go more than an hour without talking about one of those two things in excruciating detail.
Um,
Daisy: I love it,
Pucks: but excruciating detail. But, um, burlesque has, uh.
It, it was very healing in the beginning. Um, very empowering in in the beginning. [00:20:00] Um, burlesque is one of those art forms where like you are really in charge of so much of, of the creative process from start to finish. Um, you know, like you have your idea. You, you build your costume or you put your costume together, you do your choreography and here’s your art baby that you birth into the world.
And, you know, typically there’s very little, um, outside interference into that creative process unless you decide to let it in. And that’s really empowering, I think for a lot of folks that, um, are in marginalized bodies that we don’t really get afforded that opportunity in most aspects of our life of being fully in control of an I idea to actual completion of the idea.
Um, and so it was really, really deeply empowering for me. Um, and then a lot of what I had learned out in the world, sort of being really applicable to the, [00:21:00] the business end, the production end of things. And so I really fell headfirst into producing, um. I perform a lot, but producing is like where like the heart is.
Um, and it is a lot of work to break break barriers that are there. Um, it’s a lot of work to stand up and say, Hey, this isn’t right. Um mm-hmm. You make a lot of enemies. Um, I definitely made a lot, a lot of enemies doing this work. Um, I have a standard. I have a standard. I have a standard, uh, and I am unwavering on that standard.
I have to be, um, because of who I am and how I move in the world. Mm-hmm. Um, other people don’t have those standards for themselves and that’s totally okay. I, I don’t have to make space at a table for you and I won’t make a space at a table for you. Um, and that was also [00:22:00] a really healing thing for me to be able to like stop people pleasing and stop, uh, being in a position of, I want, I so badly want everyone to be my friend. And this kind of Pollyanna complex that I had going into burlesque, uh, burlesque has definitely allowed me to kind of like stand on my own two feet. Um, yeah, and it’s, it is rough. It’s rough out there.
Everybody wants to be a star. We’re all stars. Um. And we all have our hurts and our traumas and our pain that we bring, um, into the dressing rooms, uh, you know, online and into these spaces. Um, I wish folks so much, uh, you know, so much that we do some of that inner work, um, so that we can be in spaces with other folks that are still.
still in, in like these growth moments within themselves, right. It’s hard. Um, I think it’s even, it’s harder, even, even more so now with just like [00:23:00] the current political climate and you know, like we made all these steps forward and we’re taking all these steps back and mm-hmm. The stress is very triggering. It’s really, really, really, really hard.
Um, and so like burlesque has done so much for me as like becoming, um, more confident in in myself, confident in my in, like how I carry myself as a business person. I created a whole art and culture nonprofit because of you know, being involved in burlesque, like it’s given me so much, it’s also very stressful.
Uh, yes. You know, the money isn’t, the money doesn’t money always, you know, and there’s only so many venues and there’s only so many gigs and, uh, people are fighting over gigs and you’re like, we’re fighting over 50 bucks at a slice of pizza, maybe, you know? Um, it’s a, it’s a lot. [00:24:00] Um, you know, and some folks really do burlesque for the love of the game, and some of us do it because we do love it, but also we need, we need the money.
Like money is, until we live in a world that is free of capitalism, you kind of have to have the capital to opt out, you know? Yeah. Um,
Daisy: it’s still a job, so
Pucks: Yeah. Still a job. Like the moment you decide that you’re going to take money to do the thing, you kind of have to do the thing.
Daisy: Mm-hmm.
Pucks: And I think that that is a, has been a point of contention, uh, within myself and, and, uh, the industry.
Sometimes the community sometimes is like, you know, like, I’m glad that you’re having fun. I’m glad that, I’m glad that this 75 bucks that this producer is paying you is a drop in the bucket. And it doesn’t matter to you, but like. It matters to that producer, it matters to other folks that are here in this space right now.
So we need to show up. Um Yes, completely and fully. Yeah, [00:25:00] totally.
Daisy: So there’s this ongoing conversation. Forever about the intersection of burlesque and sex work. Can we talk about that for a little bit? Like how, let,
Pucks: let’s talk about it.
Daisy: Let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about it.
Pucks: Yes.
Daisy: Um, so like, how does your, how does the stage become a platform for empowerment and visibility?
Pucks: I mean, most of us are getting on that stage room in bodies that are like- there’s a lot of legislation about what rights we have and don’t have. So like deeply empowering, especially right now, right? It’s hot, right? So like stepping onto a stage in a body that like there are laws and bills that are meant to govern you, um, is a political action.
Doesn’t matter if you’re getting on stage and you’re doing the most beautiful classic fan dance act in the whole world, or you’re getting it there with your cardboard [00:26:00] sign and pouring paint all over your body and having like a riot girl moment like that. It’s all political. When you are in a body that is not a straight size cis-het white male body period.
Uh, and so there is a lot of power there. I think when we’re talking about this like intersection between burlesque and sex work, everything boils down to whorephobia.
Mm-hmm.
Pucks: Um, if you are perceived to have a vulva, whorephobia is like that sticker is ready to be slapped on you just, just for existing.
Right. Um, and so, um, it’s like. That is the through line. Um, you know, burlesque, not all burlesque is stripping, but a lot of it is stripping, you know?
Daisy: Mm-hmm.
Pucks: So like there are blue laws in, in [00:27:00] cities all over the country that govern how naked you can get if there’s liquor around or if people could actually witness you taking off your clothes or like all of that.
There’s like a lot of weird little laws. It’s the governing of, of the fem form, right? Yeah. Um, it’s the policing of the fem form. It is blocking access of the fem form to take power and make, make a personal decision to monetize their body as opposed to letting a man be in control of the monetization of your body.
Mm-hmm.
Pucks: Um, and that’s the same with burlesque as it is with sex work. What it is with stripping, like all of it, is like, it’s about the power to make the decision in the body that you’re in to monetize it and the way that you see fit without having the man be there [00:28:00] telling you what you can and can’t do with it.
It’s, it, it’s empowering and it’s also, I can see how it’s scary to a system that very much so banks on afab, people feeling powerless and can’t escape and not having the means of their own production.
Daisy: Mm-hmm.
Yes. It’s. It’s, ugh, it never ends. No, it, it’s constant power struggle. Yeah. Um, so I’ve noticed you’ve been organizing in Seattle’s sex positive community for over a decade, and I think that’s amazing.
What are some of the most important lessons you’ve learned about community care?
Pucks: You know, people use the word community a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. Um, that’s what I’ve learned is people use the word community like they use the word family to excuse a lot of crappy, shitty behavior. You know, it’s like, oh, I thought this community would be more [00:29:00] accepting.
And it’s like you showed it to someone’s party and you like didn’t follow the rules at the party. The community does not need to rise up to meet you there. Right? Yeah. Like the rules were there, you know? Um. It, you know, the community didn’t do this, the community didn’t do this, the community didn’t do that.
I’m like, well, what, what did you give to community? I’m like, ’cause if you showed up for one party and paid 20 bucks, like, thank you for your donation. Like, you know what I mean? So, yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s fascinating Within the sex positive, uh, community, like here in Seattle, like it is, uh, you know, I think it’s-
When you really love doing something, you really want to give yourself to it. Um mm-hmm. People will exploit that, you know? Um, and they use, they’ll use community as a means to, to do that, right? Where it’s like, keep giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, [00:30:00] um, you know, volunteer all of your time, you know?
Mm-hmm. Give extra money, do this, do that. And so you do all that. And then, um, when you need to take a break when you need someone to show up for you in a way, um, people will call you greedy or, you know, um, like you don’t care. They’ll kind of like really try to take away that, that impact. Um, I have found myself really in these years gravitating towards like collaborations and like co co-producing events with people that have, um, share some of the values to me around what community is and isn’t. And um, I think that’s the most valuable thing I think out of anyone that’s like trying to do something in community, surround yourself with people that, um, have a similar ethic and like, it’s just that will help you so [00:31:00] much. Um, and also surround yourself with people who don’t say yes all the time.
Um, yeah, I feel really fortunate. I have a lot of people in my circle that, um, be like, oh, hell no, we’re not that, that’s not good for you. That’s not good for the organization. That’s not good. Um, or like, here are some, here are some, you know, here are some spots that you missed. Um, you know, I think that when you start to show up in places in as like as, as a leader or as like someone that you know, has got their shit together, it looks like, um, it can look like on the, out from the outside, that like, you think that you’re a know it all, you think, you, you, you know, you have all these people who are like just Yes, yes ma’am, and, and no ma’am, and you and all this other stuff.
Mm-hmm. No, no, no, no. I have a lot of people that I love and respect dearly who are just like, Absolutely the fuck not. I’m like, oh, okay. Here you, [00:32:00] yeah, great.
Daisy: It’s important to have opposing ideas sometimes so that you can grow and learn and no matter Absolutely how far you come, you always have more to grow.
Pucks: Absolutely. //
Daisy: Tell us about What the Funk, I wanna, I wanna know more about that. Like,
Pucks: What the Funk is started off as like a, um, I call it an act of oppressed pettiness. Um, I was, uh, I was, I was tired of seeing all white shows in Seattle. I [00:33:00] was, uh, had an incident with a producer who was just like, oh, funk music isn’t classic music.
It’s gotta be from this period to this time period. And I was just like, oh my God. Like that sucks. You suck. And I probably will never do anything with your group. ’cause this is like very, like very, very narrow minded, uh, and also deeply dismissive like to like black culture and, and stuff. And so I created what The Funk as a, um, two night burlesque show back in 2018.
Um, we did two nights of it and the, at the end of the second show was in the green room. I was a little tipsy. I’m like, I’m gonna make a burlesque festival. I hadn’t even been to a burlesque festival yet. I’m like, I’m gonna make one. It’s gonna be great. Um, and so What The Funk is Now, uh, co-produced by myself and, uh, Rebecca M’Davis of the Save Late Show.
And, uh, Stormy Chance, the solutions [00:34:00] specialist of burlesque, the three of us, uh, put together What the Funk year after year. Um, it’s a three night. Burlesque festival that is all funk music and all people of color. Uh, we have performers from all over the country. Um, was it last year? Yep. Last year. We had a performer come over from the UK, um, to perform with us.
Like it’s, it’s a beautiful, beautiful thing. It’s my longest running, um, event. Um, we have done it- This will be our sixth year anniversary this August. Um, and it’s just, it’s a, it’s a love letter to the black men in my family. It truly is. Mm-hmm. Um. I have memories of like the black men in my family at like, cookouts.
Um, and the only time I got to see them like carefree and light and happy was like when they were hanging around the grill, listening to funk music. And so it fills this, this cup, [00:35:00] um, for sure. But it’s, it’s a fun time. If you’re like, I wanna go to Seattle in August, you should. ’cause it’s, it sounds fun.
First of all, it’s beautiful in Seattle. It’s beautiful in Seattle in August. Uh, nice. But two, the festival’s amazing.
Daisy: I love it. So, in your opinion, why is it important to center BIPOC voices in bodies in burlesque?
Pucks: I, I, it goes back to this erasure thing, you know, like with queer, like, also with like queer culture, right?
Like there is, like, there are so many BIPOC. Uh, legends that we have, just that were forgotten. Uh, ’cause someone wasn’t there with a camera ’cause why would they be there with a camera? Right. So it’s like for every, you know, for every, um, Tony Elling and Tanqueray, you know, there is all these other performers that [00:36:00] black and brown performers that no one was there with a camera, you know, kind of thing. And so, um, I really think that centering the bodies and, and artistry of BIPOC performers in burlesque is so that our history and our contribution to this art form doesn’t get buried and, and erased. Um, you know, uh, bla black afab are- We’re the prototype, we are the, like we, it, we really do create, um, trends and fashion and like we’re ahead of the curve, always, always ahead of the curve when it comes to what’s the latest, greatest, what’s gonna happen.
And it’s just, it’s painful to continue to see that, like erasure of that brilliance.
Daisy: Yeah, absolutely. [00:37:00] So what advice would you give to emerging performers and organizers who wanna create inclusive, sustainable spaces?
Pucks: I mean, I think having a set of, um, like
having a mission statement and like your, your personal values, um, is huge. I think that a lot of folks that when we’re like- when you’re starting out as a performer or an organizer, um, you don’t know what you don’t know.
Daisy: Mm-hmm.
Pucks: Um, and so there is like, there is that steep learning curve of like, oh, shouldn’t have done that, won’t do that again.
So like really sitting and thinking about like, what are your hard limits? What do you stand for and what are you about? Um. And I think that, um, you know, I tell folks that I am less interested in safe spaces and more interested in spaces of accountability and, um, mostly ’cause the most, only the most [00:38:00] marginalized person in the room can decide if a space is safe for them.
Um,
Daisy: totally.
Pucks: But we talk about spaces of accountability. We’re talking about like, what do you do when something goes wrong, not if, um, and people use the word accountability. A lot these days like take accountability for this. Take accountability for that. Sometimes someone taking accountability is not a big public splashy thing sometimes it’s like, I know what has been done. I know what has, I know what has transpired and this is what I am doing moving forward to protect myself, protect my boundaries, and to protect, um, you know, my business and what I’m doing. So really knowing like, what does accountability look like and feel like to you?
Mm-hmm. Um, you know, um, yeah. But yeah, I, I, I can’t stress enough this, I, the, the idea of like, [00:39:00] what are your personal code of like code of ethics, um. It’s a big thing and you know, I think that everyone’s moral compass is in different places. Yeah. At all, you know, different places all the time. Um. And so I think really getting comfortable with the fact that, um, a lot of things can’t just be black and white.
There is some gray, um, mm-hmm. Especially in movement building, um, community organizing. ’cause a lot of the systems that are in place, uh, were not created with people like us in mine at all. And so my feeling is, is that, well, if I was never thought of when it, when these things were happening, I ain’t gotta follow all them damn rules.
I’m gonna do what I need to do.
Daisy: I heard that for
sure. For sure. So what, let’s talk about Fat Con. What is Fat Con? It sounds amazing.
Pucks: Fat Con is wild. [00:40:00] Uh, so Fat Con kind of came out of. All this, all this work that I was doing in burlesque. Mm-hmm. You know, I constantly out here, you know, being like, we need more black and brown performers on stage.
Um, you need more disabled people on stage. Um, and then realizing that fat performers really getting, like if you’re fat and you have any other marginalization tag to you, um, there’s just this general assumption that like, we’re not bookable. Um, and I was like, this is terrible. Um, so right before the pandemic started, some friends of mine reached out and they’re like, yo, we’re gonna do this one day fat conference called Fuck Yeah Bodies. Can you bring us some fat burlesque entertainment? And I’m like, absolutely. Pandemic happened. We couldn’t do the event. But this kept sticking in my head. I had gone to an all plus size burlesque festival back in 20, uh, 18, and it was. Really [00:41:00] amazing experience. And so I went to my, my friends and I’m like, yo, when this pandemic, we, as we come outta this pandemic, I want, I wanna do an event, I wanna do a fat convention.
And my friend’s like, you wanna do a Fat Con? I’m like, yeah, we’re gonna do a Fat Con. And like during the day we’ll have, you know, all the education stuff. And then at night we’ll do the burlesque festival piece of it. And they’re like. Let’s go. We started doing the homework for it. It’s a lot. It’s a big lift.
Um, yeah. And so I’m like, Hey, I’m gonna do the festival first. If it takes off, I will come back and we’ll do this- we’ll do the convention. Um, so Fat Less Fest Northwest was born the first year we did it. Sold out standing room only. Beautiful time. So I said, okay, I’ll do the convention. So Fat Con, we had our first Fat Con in, uh, January, 2024.
And we just had our second one in 2025. And um, the amazing thing is we get so many workshops about fat pleasure and fat [00:42:00] sexuality, um, submitted to us. I. You know, and I think it’s being who I am, I can go into this con, I can go into this space as the con director and be like, all right, I wanna see fat, a fat sex worker panel.
I wanna see fat sex panels, I wanna see burlesque performers. I wanna see fat strippers. Like I, this is what I want. Um. There’s no real pushback from this team that I’ve, you know, put together to create this event. Um, which is really interesting ’cause we have, you know, we get fat folks from all walks of life.
Um, but, you know, we do have a, a, a nice sized contingent of like fat white, middle aged housewives, you know, that are like, I’m coming to Fat Con Who are being exposed to a fat sex worker panel. And be like, oh my God, there’s fat sex workers. Like they’re having their mind just rocked, right? Yeah. So like, it really puts us in, in a position really puts us in a position of being very different than some of the [00:43:00] other, um, like fat organizations that have been popping up.
Um, and that we’re like, you know, fat people are people and. I’m here as the person I am making sure, like, don’t forget fat sex workers. Don’t forget fat strippers. Don’t forget, like, don’t forget that whore phobia affects fat people too. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, let’s not forget our fat, you know, trans nibblings to make sure they’re included in this event.
So it’s really gives, I just feel like I’m in a really great position to sit and advocate for more representation within FAT Community with Fat com.
Daisy: That’s amazing. That is, that’s so amazing. I love it. How do you see Fat Liberation connecting with your work in BDSM, sex ed and performance?
Pucks: Uh, I mean Fat Less Fest.
The, the Burlesque [00:44:00] Festival is um, really kind of gives us, um. This moment to change people’s lives. Um, I think that like when I first got started as a performer, I thought, oh, my ex have to be funny ’cause I’m fat. And that’s, you know, fatty funny’s, you know, and I really struggled with that and against that for a long time.
Um, I think some of the most amazing burlesque acts I’ve ever seen have been classic glamor burlesque acts with folks in fat bodies. It’s subversive, even though it’s just a fat person existing doing, but it is subversive. Right? Um, I find it. Stunning. Amazing. Um, and I find it like deeply, like it’s healing, right?
Um, I, I think that, you know, fat folks aren’t really afforded the idea of like glamor and being like gorgeous and beautiful, but I think of a glamorous, fat entity, I’m like, oh, miss [00:45:00] Piggy was allowed to be glamorous, you know? Um, but like fat bodies, um, being seen as something like desired wanted craved, and seeing that on a stage, and it’s like 45 fat burlesque performers over three days.
Um, people cry like, you know, like you go up at the, I, like, I go and talk to as many audience members as I can in the middle of the intermission for these shows. Mm-hmm. And people will grab you and they just start crying, you know. Fat people, formerly fat people, people who have dealt with fatness all their lives.
People who are straight size, who are there with their fat partner having a whole emotional moment like it’s. It’s incredible. The first year we did the festival, we had a lot of volunteers who were, uh, straight sized and I had one come up to me and like she was in tears and she’s like, someone just pulled me [00:46:00] aside.
And they just told me how grateful they were that this existed and it just moved me. And now here I am crying in front of you and I’m like, okay, you know, let’s hug it out. Like, but it does fat phobia effects all people, we all have this internalized thing of what we think our bodies should be, should be, should what it should look like.
Society is constantly telling us what it should and should look like. I think that when I think about BDSM spaces, um, I’ve always seen a lot of fat people in kink and BDSM spaces. They typically tend to be covered up. You know, they struggle with a lot of the fetish wear doesn’t necessarily go up to the larger sizes.
Um, yeah. You know, um, you have these bondage and rope guys are like, oh yeah, I don’t, I don’t tie fat bitches. Or they’ll try to convince you that like tying fat people is exactly the same as tying straight size people when it’s not anymore rope. Right. You know? So like, it’s, it’s like, [00:47:00] it’s really bizarre.
And so like, I think like at Fat Con, in one of our most popular workshops the last two years has been our, uh, learning how to tie fat bodies. Um, and
Daisy: Oh, that’s awesome.
Pucks: Like, people cry. They cry. Yeah. It’s a whole moment. Um, our instructor, um,
Daisy: That’s a space where a lot of people feel completely excluded from
Pucks: Absolutely.
You know, and so this, this instructor does like the, like teaching how to tie for fat bodies. And then later on comes back in the evening and does a, rope performance with, uh, one of her partners who’s fat. And it’s beautiful. It’s amazing. It’s a suspension, so it’s like fat bitches flying.
Daisy: Awesome.
Pucks: Love that.
Daisy: I love it.
Pucks: But like my work is to help facilitate these things so that people know that there is access to these things. Um. That, like these things should be more accessible, but they’re not. And [00:48:00] so here we are trying to break down some of those, uh, you know, some of those barriers that hold people back from being able to, um, experience those things.
Daisy: That’s amazing. And that level of representation is so powerful and it’s, it’s amazing. Um, so how do you manage to secure like, local, state and federal funding for burlesque? And what tips would you give to other marginalized artists trying to access funding?
Pucks: It’s, um, I. It’s a lot of writing y’all out the gate, like it’s a lot of writing out the gate.
Um, but if you are a producer who’s producing burlesque events and things like that, uh, check and see in your, you know, your city, your state, your whatever if there is someone that does fiscal sponsorship, um. And it’s a really good way to kind of get your foot into the door. Fiscal sponsorship allows you to kind of operate as an, as a nonprofit, and so that allows you to apply for some of these grants, um, which [00:49:00] is, that’s what we did.
It’s really, really helpful. Um, and sitting down and creating like a tracker of all the grants you can find, um mm-hmm. When you first get started, like. Yes, aim for the moon, but also there are a lot of, you know, 500 to $2,500 grants that are out there. So like, apply for those for individual artists. You typically don’t need to be a nonprofit or anything like that.
Research them. Um, start collecting, um, recommendation letters from people that you, that you’ve worked with in the past. Uh, collect testimonials. Make sure that you’re saving copies of your work, whether that be, you know, videos of your work or, you know, if you’re creating posters for your shows or your events or whatever.
Saving all those things, archiving those things, it’s gonna make it a hell of a lot easier when you’re filling out these applications, um, for the different grants Um, but there are just, there are grants. There are. Foundations that really wanna [00:50:00] support the arts. Um, sometimes their hands are tied because they’re getting funding from, um, local government, state federal’s now more, a lot more complicated of course. But, so they have all these things that they have to do for reporting purposes. So a lot of the times when they’re asking you for like really highly specific things, they’re not doing it just to be jerks. They’re doing it because they have to answer to someone on the other end.
Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I would. Highly recommend, um, researching, uh, fiscal sponsorship. Um, and then a lot of these, a lot of like art and culture organizations, um, you know, even the city, like city ones offer different kinds of free workshops of like how to apply for funding, um, how to, how to start fundraising, how to gain donors.
Go to those free workshops. They’re virtual, go to them and just absorb, absorb, absorb. Like little sponge. Soak it all in.
Daisy: [00:51:00] Yeah.
So. What kind of challenges are you facing for your nonprofit due to the political climate attacking DEI efforts And how are you navigating that?
Pucks: So, some grant money that we get, um, is supplemented by the National Endowment, uh, of the Arts.
we have had, um, um, an n or NEA, designation on the what the funk, uh, uh, website for, uh, three years now. And it has to come down, you know? ’cause we’re not gonna get funding from Yeah. The National Endowment of the Arts because this administration has lost its complete and utter damn mind. Um. It’s painful.
Like, you know, we work with, uh, we’re fiscally sponsored at the beginning of the year after the, the inauguration. Um, there was a whole scary panic with our, uh, [00:52:00] our fiscal sponsor. When they saw that some of the first set of actions this administration was doing was starting to recall grants and really establishing that they were gonna de destroy these departments, it was frightening.
Um, we had a grant that was kind of in limbo for a little while where we weren’t sure if we were gonna get it or not. Um, and it wasn’t because like we weren’t owed that money. We weren’t sure if our fiscal sponsor was going to be able to like- be able to do
Daisy: it just in general, be able to facilitate. Um, scary.
Pucks: It’s really scary. It’s scary watching some of these larger institutions in our area, like struggle. ’cause if they’re struggling. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then a lot of, a lot of like my art and culture org, like we, um. You know, more than 50% of the funding that we have through the year is grants. Um, the majority, the rest of our funding is from community, from our [00:53:00] donors.
Um, and that’s something that I really want to highlight. You know, when you’re trying to put together these events and you’re looking at like sponsorships and donations and things like that, like so much- if your community wants to be involved, they do so much and they want to, um, they wanna be of service.
And sometimes the way that for folks to be of service is to write a check, you know? Um, yeah, or to give money. And I think the biggest rule of thumb and something that we really try to do with our donors is like, our donors are on our team, they’re on our side, and we try to include them in, in those choices and some of the decisions that we’re making.
Um, it’s gonna be tough. It’s gonna be awful. It’s gonna be not a fun time out here. Um, so if you are struggling with like the, on the funding end of things or trying to figure out what to do, um. [00:54:00] Coalition building collaboration, um, joint group fundraising events, splitting funds between, you know, the different, you know, groups that are coming together.
Like people are so paralyzed with fear right now that they don’t know what to do. And as you know, as radical artists, as sex worker advocates and activists, like, we can stand up and be like, yo, you don’t know what to do right now. Give me 50 bucks. And I know what to do with that.
I know exactly what to do with that. I know exactly where that needs to go. So we were in a position to help people who are feeling completely, uh, petrified in what to do next. We were in a unique position to, um, rally and protest. Um, for them by using our bodies and our voices when they feel too paralyzed to do it.
That’s pretty powerful. [00:55:00]
Daisy: That is, I. That is, that’s amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for talking to us today. It’s, it’s been amazing and I can’t wait to see more of what you’re into and maybe come to some of your events in Seattle ’cause so fun.
Pucks: We’d love to have you. Thank you for having me. So fun. This has been great.
Daisy: Is there anything else that you would like to tell our listeners while you’re here? I.
Pucks: Yeah. Um, so What the Funk is in August. It’s August 21st through the 23rd here in Seattle. Definitely come check us out. We’re at the triple door in downtown Seattle, which is a historic venue. It’s beautiful, it’s stunning.
It’s a great place to see a show. Their cracked coconut martinis are the best. Um, and uh, and then fat con and Fatless Fest is coming back in 2026. We call it Thickness. Yeah. Um, and so Thickness is January 15th through the 18th here in Seattle. And if you’re like, [00:56:00] I am one of those paralyzed people and I don’t know where to throw my money, uh, you can definitely throw your money at, uh, at these events.
Um, we have lots of different ways for you to do that and to get involved. If you’re like, I really wanna get involved, I just don’t know how, but I got some money, let’s talk, we’ll make magic happen. Yes.
Daisy: And where can we find more of you online?
Pucks: Ooh. Instagram is the best place to catch me, um, at Plenti on Instagram, also at the Fat Con, at Fat Less Fest in w and at What The Funk Fest.
Daisy: Thank you so much. This has been a really awesome conversation and it’s been wonderful to get the opportunity to talk to you.
Pucks: Thank you for having me. This has been great.
AMD: That was awesome.
Daisy: That was awesome. I’m so glad we got a chance to talk to pucks.
AMD: A hundred percent. They said, oh, okay. I think the part when [00:57:00] they’re like shopping for clothes, I was like, that is the hardest thing for me. ’cause like,
yeah,
I don’t like women’s clothes and then men’s clothes doesn’t fit me.
Really great. And so like I, every, like, every time I go to get dressed, especially for like a family event or like something where you’re supposed to not dress like a total slut I have such a hard time dressing myself.
That’s so, I’m like, I have no
clothes because I hate every time I go to the store, I’m like bouncing back and forth between both the men’s and the women’s section. Um, ’cause I want something in the middle, like how I feel, you know? So that was like really resonated with me.
Daisy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
AMD: That was awesome. You did a great job. You asked like, thank you. Some really solid questions there, Daisy. That was awesome.[00:58:00]
Daisy: Thank you. Yes.
No, that was that. It was so cool and like. Pucks is involved in so much. I know. Stuff that I wanna learn more about. Like I wish I had another hour
talk.
AMD: I know, I noticed. I was like, Daisy, you’re going a little long. It was awesome. That was hard not to like, I know it was hard not to keep like listening ’cause like there was just so much good stuff coming out of that.
So that was rad. Yeah.
Daisy: Yeah. And I really do wanna get up to Seattle and.
AMD: I’ve never been there.
Daisy: Some of these
events.
Yeah.
AMD: Have you been there? I’ve never been there. Yeah.
Daisy: I’ve been to Seattle once, but it was in the fall and the weather was terrible.
AMD: Oh yeah. Super rainy, right? That’s the deal. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Anyway, but yeah. Go try to go. That would be rad. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Do you wanna close this out?
Daisy: Yeah. Okay. So thank you for listening [00:59:00] to YAS Podcast. I am your host, Daisy Ducati, and we will see you next time.
AMD: Yeah. Don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe.