YAS Podcast: Jordan Kensley Episode #8 Transcript
Jordan Kensley is outspoken, in your face and direct. In a world where being direct as a woman makes most people shake in their boots, Jordan is unapologetic about her powers. She is opinionated and educated and makes you think. Whether you agree with her or not, you can’t help but listen. Jordan and AM had a blast talking on this one, so much so that time just flew by. These two have experience working together in the pole dance industry world and the stripper world. Both dance on the line between the two industries.
*This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* Begin transcript after opening credits.
AMD: Hey there, welcome back to another episode of Yes, a Stripper Podcast. Man, there is So much going on. It’s so funny when things start to like pile up and all happen at the same time. And, um, it’s just perfect. The guest that we have today, because, um, she is a very direct person and something that has sort of been occurring for me in the last several days is dealing with very direct women. Um, I was with one last night, um, and it was, you know, to, to, to start over. She, this woman in particular that I was around last night, um, when I first met her, I was like, Absolutely not. Like, I don’t like this person and I had no reason to not like her and then I figured out last night, Oh, it’s because she’s super direct and because she gets on the court. And what I mean by getting on the court is she shows up she gets right down to business. She executes and she does it in a timely manner and she does it with no bullshit and I realized last night Oh my god, that is me That, the way she was behaving, or the way she is, is an exact reflection of the way that I occur for other people.
And so something that I do a lot is I always try to look at why is this person annoying me? What is it in them that I’m- that- the qualities that I possess that other people see? And so I had this aha moment last night watching this woman and like I started to admire her for her directness and for her efficiency and And then I realized, Oh, that is probably something about me that’s potentially off putting to other people.
Um, and so, you know, and I, I talked to my best friend Tami about it, um, because Tami is also a very direct person. And I’ve also been dealing with one of my other best friends, Fox, who like, Is we both just been like hammering out information lately because we’re moving into a house and we each have been being very direct with each other and very direct in our other communications with other people.
And, you know, direct women are scary as fuck to the majority of the population, right? Um, and so that’s just something to remember in that when you do encounter a person who’s being very direct, their tone might sound off to you, but in their head it might not sound off. So, um, I guess, I’m not really trying to give advice on the situation, but I guess, What I’d like to say is ask more questions when someone’s being very direct and they’re coming off as rude just ask them like “what do you mean by that?” and maybe see if you get a different type of tone But yeah I just wanted to bring it up because I’ve known our guest Jordan Kensley for a while now and she’s probably one of the most direct and in your face type of people that you will ever meet and encounter, isn’t that right dear friend?
JK: It’s pretty accurate.
AMD: Yeah, I’ve known you for a while and I’ve seen you come up a, against a lot of walls and a lot of people who take what you say and sort of turn it into something else.
JK: Yeah, it happens quite often. I find that in most communities, um, stripper community, girl world, like, just socializing in general, people don’t like to say what they mean because we’re taught not to. We have to say what we kind of mean. And when I grew up, I rode horses primarily. And so 90 percent of my time outside of school was with ponies and horses don’t deal with passive aggressive communication or even passive communication.
AMD: I don’t think they would even know. They don’t understand tone.
JK: No. Well, and it’s either like you have to be direct and ask for exactly what you want. And the same with other animals like. You can’t reprimand someone, like, three days later. They have no idea what you’re talking about. You have to do it within 30 seconds, just because, like, they reset their brain. It’s very Dori, if you will. And so that’s how I grew up with communicating, is, like, very direct in a barn atmosphere. Like, you have three seconds. Those horses loose, like, what’s going on. So you’re just shouting out whatever. And then, um, I just kind of grew up that way and then also my dad is Arabic and I grew up in the middle of nowhere so I’ve constantly had to fight as a woman for, like, my opinion to matter and for me I just feel like I’m being resilient in my opinions and, like, I’m happy to hear other people’s opinions but you have to be just as passionate as you, like, for your opinions as I am about mine otherwise I completely understand why sometimes people feel bulldozed by my, uh, aggressive behavior.
AMD: Well, something that I’ve noticed about you because you know, Jordan and I, we’ve been friends for how long now?
JK: Eight years.
AMD: Yeah, and we’ve, we’ve worked with each other on and off as well. And you know, you’re in the pole dance industry and I’m in the pole dance industry. So our life often overlaps. And something that I’ve noticed about you is a lot of times you’ll text me, something like, blah, blah, blah. What do you think about this? And I’m just like, well, X, Y, and Z. And you’re like, oh, interesting. I never thought of it. I didn’t see it that way. And so you do have the, even though you’re direct and passionate, you have the capacity to stand back and like see things from a different angle and learn from it.
JK: I try to. For me, I’m very much a visual learner, and then secondary to that would be like kinesthetic or audio. So like I try to talk through my thought process, which again, if it’s not on the right sounding board, it’s gonna come off as like either mansplaining as a woman, or just like super aggressive and like really just shitty behavior and like merrrr, I’m just complaining when really I just want to know, like, what are your thoughts on this? Because I feel like I should be angry, but also, um, Maybe I shouldn’t be, like, is there another perspective I’m not seeing? But it’s really hard to find a lot of people who aren’t immediately thrown off by that really direct, pointed way of communicating.
AMD: People are just a little soft.
JK: Europeans, not so much. I get along really well with Europeans.
AMD: Okay.
JK: I find from, uh, all the traveling that I’ve done in my life, I find that my personality fits really well in Europe. I don’t think, to my current knowledge, I’ve offended very few people in Europe. And I think it has something to do with, like, There’s a language barrier, so direct communication when English isn’t their first language is better for, uh, communicating because there’s no entendres, there’s no, um, analogies I have to explain. I’m just saying what I mean so that they understand what I mean, and then that way there’s no confusion. Whereas in America, because there’s so many intricacies to the way we just communicate in general. And especially, like, in personal situations where there’s a lot of passion involved from either one end or both ends, that’s where it can kind of get tricky because you have to make sure that you’re getting your point across without necessarily- in the way that they need to hear it, not the way that you need to say it. And that’s something that I feel like, slowly with age and time, it’s like,
AMD: Well, yeah, I mean, we can’t, there’s so much to learn even in communication, even though we’ve learned to talk since we were little, little tiny things, like there’s still so much to learn. And then I think that with like exposure to so many new cultures and ideas, I think that we have even more on our plate these days. Like there’s so much to be woke about and there’s so much to pay attention to. And then we’re just getting bombarded with news and fake news and all kinds of weird shit. It’s like, we’re constantly learning how to communicate all of these things and how to like even, what’s the word, like soak in all the information and then be able to like regurgitate it.
JK: And live it. Those are two different things. Regurgitating and living something.
AMD: Oh my god. It’s, Literally, so much pressure.
JK: It’s like a lot, you know, like I’m here, but I’m not here, like what’s going on?
AMD: Like, yeah. Um, okay, so, first, first things first, this is Yes, a Stripper podcast, so we have to let our audience know. Are you or are you not? Do you identify as a stripper?
JK :I do identify as a stripper. I’ve had that conversation with my mom like four or five different times.
AMD: How’s your mom doing?
JK: She’s good. She’s okay. For a backstory, my mom’s had cancer on and off since I was 14, so now she’s good.
AMD: That’s great.
JK: Which is great. And she works for Delta, so that’s a thing.
AMD: That’s great. Good benefits.
JK: Yeah, and she’s not really traveling because she usually, like, she usually does, uh, Asian tours. Okay. Uh, there and back to China, but with what’s going on currently?
AMD: Oh yeah. The coronavirus
JK: All, like all American companies have halted any stops in China and most other Asian countries too.
AMD: Do you think Corona beer is like totally pissed off that they named a virus after them?
JK: Well, supposedly there’s like, uh, I’m still looking into like the facts of it, but apparently it’s a patented virus with like. Oh, yeah, man, I’ll send you the links and everything that I found, but there’s like a patent for it. It’s like, it’s a man made situation that’s been unleashed on the world.
AMD: Yikes. All right. Well, this isn’t a science podcast.
JK: But yes, I am a stripper. Okay. Good, good.
AMD: No, no, it’s fine. No, it’s fine. We went there. It’s chill. Um, but you also identify as a pole dancer.
JK: I do.
AMD: Yeah. So, and for our audience. I don’t know if I’ve said this on this podcast yet, there is a, so not all strippers pole dance and not all pole dancers strip. But there is, and like what I envision, and I just need to make it, okay?
JK: Yeah, it’s like a Venn diagram.
AMD: Venn diagram. And then maybe we should add a third circle for sex workers because some sex workers pole dance and strip
JK: Or just pole dance and don’t strip or just strip.
AMD: So many things. Okay. I’m going to do that before this episode comes out so that nobody steals my idea.
JK: Perfect. Ooh. Fourth diagram.
AMD: Ooh.
JK: Pole dancers who support sex workers and strippers.
AMD: Ooh. What?
JK: Because that’s a thing.
AMD: And well, I’d like to see that number grow a little bit more.
JK: Hence the podcast name.
AMD: Hence the podcast name, exactly. Okay, so, I say all that to say, so we know that you identify as a stripper, you said something earlier where you’re like, you’ve not offended that many Europeans, leading us to believe that you travel a lot.
JK: I do.
AMD: Can you tell us? Where and why you’re traveling so much and how often you travel, just lay it out.
JK: Um, so I teach pole dancing on an international level and I travel to different studios around the world, uh, to hobby studios and teach tricks and fluidity and choreography and like lap dance and chair dance and all of the different aspects that could be part of, uh, pole dancing. Either a movement in the club or movement out of the club because I don’t distinguish between the two. Um, unless it’s like specifically lap dance. I think that’s the only workshop that I have where I’m like, you will never do this in the club because the floor is gross and you don’t want to put your face on it. Or, um, or like guys aren’t
AMD: Well, I’ve done a lot of stuff in the club that most people wouldn’t do. So you never know.
JK: Fair. Fair. Um, but I think pole dancers are like more likely to do. Like a headstand in someone’s lap on a competition stage. Whereas, if you’re not, if you’re only getting paid 20 bucks for a lap dance, I’m not gonna do a headstand. You’re getting some air dancing, you’re getting some titties in your face, and you’re like moving on.
AMD: Well, if you’re on the stage though…
JK: Stage is different,
AMD: that’s a really crowd pleasing trick.
JK: Stage is different, though. I’m talking like intimate. So the workshop is very much like intimate, one on one partner experience.
AMD: Do you teach them to put their faces on the person’s genitals?
JK: Absolutely.
AMD: Okay, good.
JK: And their boobs right in their face.
AMD: Do you teach them the trick where you blow hot air into their ball sack?
JK: Yes!
AMD: Oh my god.
JK: And in their neck, and on their ear.
AMD: That’s such a good one. It’s like a, it’s like a, like a, like a heating blanket. Like a heating pad air.
JK: Yes, and the vagina.
AMD: I wish I had a ball sack so I would know what that feels like.
JK: Right. Or like, um, what is it that cricket used to do all the time where it’s like boobs right in the genitals and you’re just like bouncing and it women it’s like hit or miss on whether or not that’s going to feel good. But men are immediately like, Oh, this is a boob job. I’m loving it. Like you don’t even have to have boobs and they’re like,
AMD: Exactly. Yeah, I think for the boobs. And, and the vagina, I would do more of a swirl, like a circular swirl, but not in the center, it would just be either the right or the left, or maybe I would like switch it off, and do one and then do the other. Yeah, so there’s like the nipple, like the roundness of the boob gets right up on the clit part.
JK: Ooh.
AMD: And then you gently massage.
JK: Nice. I’m going to use that. Yeah.
AMD: And then of course with women you do boob on boob too. Yeah, boob on boob is great. Okay. So are you teaching that in your workshops? Oh my god, amazing.
JK: Absolutely. Yeah. Well because, I mean, I feel like a lot of people who come to strip clubs are looking for a form of intimacy that we can provide. And also like, we’re hot, so welcome to us existing. But they’re looking for that type of intimacy which transfers pretty easily, in my opinion, to like a personal relationship.If like I’m your partner and we’re fucking as like a monogamous relationship, I’m going to do some-
AMD: Boring
JK: Fair. But I would expect somebody who’s already had sex with you to like be comfortable in their own skin enough to be like, yeah, I’m going to put my face in your crotch and like get up in your business. And like, that shouldn’t be such a weird experience. But I find primarily that Strippers don’t give a shit. They’re like, yeah, this is my body and the human body and sex is a part of the human experience. So why should we be ashamed of that? Whereas pole dancers and other women who are trying to just learn to be sexy, usually for their partner, it’s very, um, intimidating and very, like, uh, nerve wracking because they don’t know what to do. Like, what if they have come, like, what if they have questions? What if they’re talking to me? Like, so I kind of go through all of that.
AMD: Really? That comes up? Yeah. Like, they get nervous. Just being sensual and erotic for their already existing partner.
JK: Yes, and like, and people that they’ve been married for for years, kind of thing.
AMD: Weird. Yeah, I think so too. I just, and not weird in a bad way, I’m just like, I can’t.
JK: No, just interesting. Yeah.
AMD: Okay, so this last dude that I was like, seeing for like two seconds, I was like, you know, I just did not give a fuck. And I was like, mm, you like that? Like, do you like it when I do that? To that tiny, like, and he called me a pro like a different day. He was like, you’re basically like professional because it’s fun. You know, it was fun being in like that. And I didn’t, you know, and I just, and I think maybe cause I haven’t been on stage for a while and I haven’t been able to flex that muscle. I was like,
JK: It makes a difference.
AMD: Yeah. And so for me, that’s like kind of normal to be that way?
JK: Well, you’re one of the people that I’m like, if you want to learn how to give good porn face, you need to go to this person’s profile. I don’t know how she does it. She just looks like she’s having sex all the time, just standing there. And I’m like, I try to like replicate, I’m like, it looks like this, but it looks so dumb when I do it because I don’t have your facial features.
AMD: You don’t need the facial features.
JK: But like that, like that intensity with like the ice blue eyes that, that stare into your soul, but like, then the mouth that’s just like, Oh, I’m going to take your dick so deep. Like it’s just,
AMD: well, it comes from, honestly, years of practicing. I started practicing and I was like 15, like I’m not, I was like, I would sit in front of the mirror and make faces. And so then I, that’s what I teach people now how to make porn faces.
JK: Yes! It’s a thing! We need it!
AMD: Yeah, it’s honestly, it’s very uncomfortable for them, but towards the end they start to get it, because I make them do really ridiculous stuff at first, to like get over, to like get, like to stop giving a fuck about what you look like.
JK: Yes, the shame. Stop being ashamed. Yeah. It’s really, it’s really deep in our society. Yeah.
AMD: Whorephobia is massive. And I used to suffer from whore phobia.
JK: I feel like every person did.
AMD: Did you used to suffer from whore phobia?
JK: Yes. Until I started stripping. Yeah. Okay. Literally, I walked in and was like, I don’t know why I’m here, I just want to pole dance. And then by the end of the night, I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. This is great.
AMD: How do we get the world over whorephobia?
JK: Um, my personal opinion, like what I personally do is I start Facebook fights with people.
AMD: You start Facebook fights.
JK: Not legitimate Facebook fights. But like I’ll post something that’s very like pro stripper, pro sex worker, just pro, uh, like the shameless woman and I’ll always get that one person who’s like, like with the Hustlers halftime show thing with J-Lo and everything and like- I had one woman that I only have on my Facebook because she’s like a family friend that I can’t- there’s like weird politics on that side with the people where I grew up. Um, so I can’t talk to her. Or I would. Um, but she said something like, well, I have white Christian values, so hh yeah, it got, oh yeah. I have white Christian values-
AMD: What?
JK: So maybe I just think better of myself. But I found it completely, thank you person in the other room, also shaking your head. It was deplorable. I was enraged.
AMD: What’s the difference between white Christian values versus like any other race?
JK: Any other race.
AMD: Oh, wow.
JK: In America, a lot.
AMD: Wow, wow, wow, wow.
JK: Yep. So you basically, like, I’ve learned really quickly how to use people’s own arguments against them. Sure. Uh. Uh. And. Honestly, I’ve gotten some positive feedback because when you start to use someone’s, uh, if they’re open to change and you use their own words and their own argument to prove your point, that’s when they, the light bulb kind of tends to go on.
AMD: So you start mirroring them.
JK: Yes, exactly. Mm hmm. Basically, you’re like, Oh, you’re sitting cross legged. I’ll sit cross legged. And isn’t this super comfortable and not just for men?
AMD: Well, for those of you who couldn’t see, she just did the knee spread position.
JK: Similar to men on subways.
AMD: Exactly, which there’s now a law against doing man spreading.
JK: Oh my gosh.
AMD: Yeah, you’ll get a fine for man spreading on the, on the subway. That happened like a few years ago, they started doing that. Okay. So, we totally got off topic. We’re supposed to talk about your traveling. Oh, yes. We need everyone to know. So, I tour internationally. Where you’ve been.
JK: I’ve been to 33 countries in my life.
AMD: How many continents?
JK: Um, most everywhere except Africa. And technically-
AMD: So you haven’t been to Antarctica?
JK: Haven’t been to Antarctica or the Arctic North, whatever that one is.
AMD: I don’t think that counts.
JK: Doesn’t it count?
AMD: No, I don’t think so.
JK: Is it because it’s attached to Russia?
AMD: Yeah, I think it’s considered that. I don’t think that there’s a separate continent up in, in both up top and bottom. North Pole and South Pole? No. No.
JK: Just the South Pole. Everyone likes going down.
AMD: Yeah, exactly. Okay. Oh my god. Um, how often are you on the road? Cause like, you’re never here.
JK: I’m never here. No. I’m here for like 24 hours at a time. Um, so just in, starting in January, I was in Brazil for like 10 days. I came home for three. Then I went to, uh, Hawaii for four days, came home for 24 to 48 hours, was in Canada, came back, went to Costa Rica, came back, I go to Vegas this weekend, and then I come back and then I had to Bali and go on like my first big international tour. So then in March and April, I’ll be in Australia and New Zealand.
AMD: That’s great. I’m really excited about it.
JK: I barely break even, but it’s worth it because I get to travel.
AMD: Yeah, but you’re, you’re rich in experiences and, and knowledge and like seeing the planet.
JK: Yes. 100%. You know?
AMD: What’s been your most favorite thing that you’ve seen, like city or situation or experience?
JK: Um, people wise, I think Brazil, just people wise. I just went to Brazil for the first time and the people there were so open and so honest with their emotions and I was there for Pole Theater Brazil and I was judging and it was the only time I think I’ve ever cried so hard for pole dancing and for something that’s been on stage and the, uh, just the raw honesty that was put forth along with the extreme technical skill that I was not prepared for, especially for like an amateur and semi pro competition. They just like blew me out of the water. But they were open to talking about like LGBTQ rights and they talked about like the Amazon rainforest in a really beautiful way. And then like the economy and then quite a few stripper routines, dealing with social media, like they were very on top of- for all the categories. So not even just in like drama, which is primarily focused on like storytelling capabilities with movement. They were like the exotic category, the drama category, the artistic one that’s based more on different styles of movement where like they all had this incredible theme and story that went with them, which would make sense for the competition, but is very rarely seen in my personal opinion. It’s like usually just like one or two that stand out and this entire country stood out. And then everybody in the audience too was like, no matter who went on stage, the whole audience was there for them. Which is also something that in America I don’t experience very often, uh, it’s usually very much a studio versus studio situation and like if you have friends, you’ll cheer for your friends, but you’re not going to just cheer for like another competing studio. Whereas in Brazil, everybody was just happy.
AMD: That’s so nice.
JK: Yeah. It was incredible. And then New Zealand is my favorite country in terms of like nature. And then Paris is probably my favorite for architecture.
AMD: I heard that the men in New Zealand don’t use umbrellas because it’s not considered manly. Yeah.
JK: I don’t know about that, but I will ask when I’m there in March.
AMD: I need confirmation. If anybody knows this weird fact, please email us at yesastripperpodcast at gmail. com.
JK: Do Kiwis use umbrellas?
AMD: Exactly. Kiwi men, specifically.
JK: Well, but is it Kiwis or is it Maori, because Maori is their native culture?
AMD: I think Kiwi is slightly offensive. Is it offensive?
JK: I don’t think so.
AMD: Or isn’t it? I feel like the Australians call them kiwis.
JK: No, they call themselves kiwis.
AMD:They do call themselves.I think kiwi is cute. It’s super cute.
JK: Yeah. Because what else are they?
AMD: Okay, so it’s not offensive. Like, kiwi is a fruit. How did it even get to the word kiwi?
JK: Because it’s a bird first. And it’s the natural bird. Like, it’s the country bird. It’s like this little egg with a beak that’s black, and it just kind of runs around.
AMD: Like a hummingbird?
JK: Kind of, but without, like, no wing capability, it just kind of runs. It’s like a roadrunner, but like tiny. I’ll send you a photo of it.
AMD: So it’s a mix between a roadrunner and a hummingbird. Thank you. I need labels. Okay? That’s how I get through life.
JK: But it’s egg sized, so it’s super, yeah.
AMD: Ooh, it’s so cute. It’s so Ooh.
JK: Okay. Yeah, okay. Or egg shaped. Yeah.
AMD: So kiwi’s not offensive. No, I don’t well, I’m glad that we figured that out.
JK: Um, I’m not a kiwi, so I don’t
AMD: Well, no.
JK: I don’t take any responsibility if you are offended by that. This is from my own personal experience. I’m not responsible.
AMD: Did you meet Giulia from WeGon? In Brazil?
JK: No. Oh, yes I did! Yes, we interviewed! Yes. We did an interview.
AMD: She’s so lovely.
JK:I got really emotional.
AMD: We haven’t met in person yet.
JK: Oh, she’s so kind.
AMD: So Gulia, for those of you who don’t know, is um, the director of a pole dance media company that is in Spanish and Portuguese. And so we have collaborated over the years through United Pole Artists. My company that I am the director of and then WeGon and so we have been on WhatsApp and we have phone conferences with each other for the last, like two or three years now, and we haven’t ever met each other.
JK: Oh, she’s wonderful. I know. Her energy is just very like, brightening.
AMD: I know. She’s amazing. Um, okay. Well, yeah. So talk to me about, because you in the Venn diagram are. You know, you’re kind of right in the middle where you support sex workers. Technically, if you identify as a stripper, you’re technically a sex worker and you’re also a pole dancer. So how do you feel or deal with the, all the things. One is, um, uh, pole dancing derives from Indian and Chinese men from the 15th century. Um, uh, stripping is gross, like that kind of shit. You know what I mean? How do you deal, how do you, what are your, what do you do? How do you deal?
JK: Um, so I usually give a really long convoluted history lesson. Um, that’s kind of like the short version is sex work has been women’s number one, um, Okay. Like, our first and foremost job, but also the way that we’ve stayed safe throughout generations and centuries. Um, whereas men go to war and they have the strength to do that, women back in, like, let’s say the 1600s or even, like, B.C. era had to rely on the gifts that we have, which is, like, seduction and kind of, like, mental manipulation. And it’s more of, like, a passive, uh, calling, if that makes sense. But it’s been like inherent in our in our bones and in our primal attitude since like the beginning of time because that’s how we can stay safe Is like if we can seduce this giant man who will then protect us like I’m good to go man And yeah, then you have major players like Cleopatra or like the first geisha women in the UK Or, or in Europe, and that’s where, Europe in the MidEvil times is where you see the first split, um, between church and state kind of, or church and women situation, so you have, like, the witching era where, when Catholicism and, uh, Christianity became really big in Europe and, like, the Crusades happened and everything, that kind of time period, a lot of, um, Church leaders would attach themselves to politicians to get laws made, um, In the way that they wanted the world to work, and women escorts specifically were doing more or less the same thing. Like, if I’m attached- if I’m a sex worker or an escort and you’re coming to me and I’m like your favorite person to fuck, like, I’m gonna be a lot more convincing.
AMD: Well, maybe you should change X, Y, and Z law and think about it while I suck your dick.
JK: Yeah, because that would be so attractive, you know? I’d be so turned on if, uh, women had the right to vote, or whatever. Yeah. Not the right time period, but that kind of idea. And so the church basically went against women because it was their main rival in terms of like politics and getting what they wanted. And then it was also, um, this one, uh, Uh, this is really well thought out in terms of like witches specifically, Witches, Sluts, and Feminists is a book that I read and so it’s really detailed in terms of like how, uh, witch practice is primarily against attractive women, or like, uh, witch hunts are against attractive women who won’t sleep with men, or old women who are no longer desired by men.
AMD: Ooh.
JK: And a lot of that comes from this very, I don’t remember his name, I’ll have to look it up so you, and I’ll send you all the info for all the people online.
AMD: Yeah, we need links and stuff, yeah.
JK: Um, but I guess this one major player in the papacy wrote his own version of like, demons and, uh, ways to avoid them, more or less, and it was just all about how much women were ruining, uh, his life. And it, it’s, it’s very erotic, and it’s basically the first BDSM book that’s ever been written, if you look at it that way, but that’s the type of shit that he was writing, is like, ways to torture women, uh, to get off, and ways, like, for him to get off, and it
AMD: Wait, wait, wait. And what was his role in life? What was his position?
JK: He was in, he was in, he was very high in the papal sea, so he was like a, like a bishop, yeah, super religious and very high up there, and he had um, association, I believe, with a few different, uh, people. different countries in terms of, um, political power. So once that book came out, even though the church itself denied the book, it was so popular within like just the generic communities, the general communities, that it became kind of a way of thinking. And with that, then you have Puritans coming over to America specifically, so a lot of my, my knowledge that I’ve looked up is, is primarily American based. So then Puritans came over and brought those same ideas with them. And so anytime there was some, some type of sexual aggression, you, as a woman, if you’re blamed for something, you can either say that the devil has corrupted you. Or you could say that you’re totally fine and this person’s a liar, but because he’s a man and you’re a woman, you’re less likely to believe, be believed, uh, based off of everything that’s already been set in place for millennias and generations and centuries and all that jazz. And so it’s just kind of like this constant downward spiral. And then from there, the last question that I usually, and so I explain all of this, and then we have the speakeasy times. I know it’s really long. Usually this is an in person question, otherwise I have like a note that’s like a shorthand version that’s just on my phone for everyone.
AMD: Oh my god, amazing.
JK: And I just copy and paste it because this question comes up a lot. Okay. Um, then you have like the speakeasies and how burlesque dancers were part of like, uh, sideshow acts and everything and all of that, and then burlesque dancers stayed in speakeasies and that’s kind of how strip clubs became a thing.
AMD: Yes and no. Yeah. Yes and no. That’s part of it. Yeah. There’s more.
JK: Super, super generalized version to make a point. Um, please look up your own information. There’s so much.
AMD: Yeah, go read books. Yeah.
JK: There’s so much. Um, and then you get to the point where it’s like, okay, so present day, what made you want to pole dance? And they’re like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it’s never, I saw this dude on a wooden pole doing flips that I’ll never do in my entire life. It’s, that woman was amazing. Yeah. That dancer was incredible.
AMD: Well, they could have seen Ken Kao, Kenneth Kao. Yeah, but even now He’s an Asian man that’s on the pole, and he’s incredible. They could have seen him.
JK: It’s true, but he’s creating a lot of, uh, a lot of his combos are from natural movement and ballistic, uh, environment and science based and stuff.
AMD: I’m on Team Jordan right now. Let me just be clear. I’m just saying.
JK: No, I know, but I get that. I get those a lot. Or like, what about Dimitri? And it’s like, yeah, but at the At that point, at this point in the pole world, we’ve all, like, we’ve created the ground, but the first pole dancers were strippers, 100 percent forever and ever. There’s a difference between Chinese pole and the Indian pole because women were never allowed to do that. And so even if you had seen that, there’s no way you would be allowed to enter those worlds in the way that they were before pole dancing existed.
AMD: Yeah, but this goes back to whorephobia.
JK: Exactly. Yeah.
AMD: So it’s, it’s like, well, I need this. Um, and I think that’s, this activity that I’m enjoying to have been derived from athletic men because I can’t be associated with doing anything that in the past or current situation that sex workers do because I’m that whorephobic that I can’t even, I can’t even admit that those whores have done the thing that I’m doing now.
JK: Yep, agreed.
AMD: It’s men. Chinese and Indian men.
JK: And a lot of times now, too, like, we have so many different movement styles because of we’ve so many different people from so many backgrounds of movement and of life coming into pole dancing and bringing those previous experiences with them, but without strippers and without sex workers, this wouldn’t exist to begin with.
AMD: Well, I mean, we’re trendsetters. Do you remember the time a few years ago when Steve Madden started making really like high platform type shoes like that started to become a trend.
JK: Yes. Uh, clear stripper shoes are now on ASOS for $200.
AMD: What the fuck, man?
JK: They’re four fucking inches.
AMD: What the fuck? We buy those for 50 from Pleasers
JK: Yeah. It’s insane.
AMD: So they’re just like, you know what my friend Natalie Clark likes to call this culture vultures. They’re just vulturing off of our culture.
JK: Yep. My favorite is when people tell me that strippers don’t have culture.
AMD: I just died. I’m dead.
JK: Strippers aren’t allowed to have culture because they’re not a race.
AMD: I can’t. Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for the history lesson. Sorry. It’s long. No, no, no. Don’t be sorry. It was great. That was great. And I want to read all these books. books.
JK: I’ll send you a ton of them. Yeah.
AMD: And can you send us like titles so we can put in there?
JK: Yeah. Yeah. Witches, Sluts, Feminists. It’s really short. It’s a really great, great read. And the woman is like, she was actually at, um, Jacq the Stripper’s show and she does last year, I think in June, right before she did, right before Jacq did Soldier, the first Soldiers of Pole (now known as Strippers United). Uh, event.
AMD: We did that in September. Of 2019.
JK: Yes, last year. Which is almost June.
AMD: So, yeah. So, it would have been in September and that was when Cheetahs was still Cheetahs.
JK: Cheetahs.
AMD: Yep. So, really quick history lesson on Cheetahs and we’re going to be talking to some Cheetahs girls really soon so that they can tell the story, but I’ll just give a quick synopsis here.
JK: Old Cheetahs or new Cheetahs girls?
AMD: Old Cheetahs Girls. Yeah, so Cheetahs one day decided that they just wanted to shut down and renovate for two weeks and then they fired all of their dancers and, um
JK: Then they got bought by someone else.
AMD: Well, no, they didn’t. That is a lie. We’ll get into that on the next episode. Yeah, there’s a lot of misconceptions, a lot of false information.
JK: Oh, I can’t wait to watch it.
AMD: Oh, yeah, we have all the details.
JK: I love details.
AMD: So, um, so yeah, that was really shitty for them, and so you know, I mean, you’re not currently stripping in Los Angeles, because why do you even need to? You’re stripping, um, on the Himalayan mountains somewhere. You know, that’s way cooler.
JK: AB5 kind of ruined that for me, and I won’t do it, so.
AM: Really?So you have thoughts about AB5? Negative thoughts?
JK: I have so many negative thoughts about AB5 and positive thoughts.
AMD: Why don’t you, let’s, let’s dissect that. I’m interested because I haven’t really had the chance to have a face to face with somebody who is anti AB5. So explain it to me.
JK: So I’m anti AB5. Only because it was clearly pushed through without any thought for all the different aspects and areas of companies and industries that it would affect. I think that in general, AB5 for the, the lawsuit that it came from was a needed thing for the reason of unionizing and not, not fucking over people who are working for you because you want to make an extra dollar. Like take care of the people who work for you, uh, in the setting that’s, in the parameters that are set. So in the lawsuit, I agree with it.
AMD: So really quick. So just to be clear for anybody who doesn’t know what lawsuit she’s talking about in AB5. So there was a case called Dynamix, um, it was, um, a truck delivery. company that like midway through their business they decided to reclassify all of their workers as independent contractors stripping away all of their rights and all of their government funded like access like those programs like workers comp and disability and so they took that away and then the workers were like no fuck that and then they basically went to court and then the Workers won and then what it did is the government was like, oh like All of these people are misclassifying their workers and should be paying all this payroll tax and should be giving their workers rights. And then they created AB 5 to sort of back up that law to make it even more illegal for employers to misclassify their workers. Continue.
JK: And so that’s where a lot of my, uh, So I’m a Gemini. A lot of air signs on my chart. Um, so I’m kind of split down the middle on AB5 because I think it’s important for sex workers to unionize. I think what Soldiers of Pole is doing is really important because the other side is now AB5 has allowed a lot of strip clubs to run even more fucked up than they already were in terms of the money that they’re taking. Yes. And the way that they’re charging us. Like I’ve worked multiple sales jobs growing up and I’ve never had to pay someone else a commission fee.
AMD: Yes, but you did even before AB5, you paid.
JK: Yes, exactly. But it wasn’t, but now it’s a different way that they’re doing it. So a lot of the clubs that I’ve worked at, just similarly after and then I’m like, I think two or three times, so I’m not super versed in it because after three negative experiences, like fuck that shit. Um, but like they’re taking the first four lap dances just to go straight to your minimum wage.
AMD: Yes, queen, I know. They’re making you lap dance for free.
JK: Yes. It’s stupid.
AMD: Yes. It’s sex slave work. Do you understand that they’re breaking the law?
JK: Yes. That’s why, that’s why I’m angry because like this, I don’t appreciate the fact that there are so many barriers for women in our community and men in our community to, to unionize and get the rights that we deserve. Whereas before, at least there was a very, a mutual understanding that like, I’m coming in, I’m paying to be here and I’m leaving with what I make for the most part.
AMD: Yeah, but they were, That’s still, that’s still wage theft to, uh, to an extreme degree. Furthermore, they were, they’re treating us as employees before, uh, being classified as independent contractors, they were treating us as employees. So not only were they breaking the law by misclassifying us, they were also breaking any potential independent contractor, um, agreement because an independent contractor agreement, you show up when you’re going to show up and you leave when you’re going to leave and you don’t get fined. And I, I’ve been using this example when a plumber says, Hey, I’ll be there at two o’clock and shows up at three you don’t then tell the plumber, you owe me a hundred dollars for being late. Right? And that’s what’s happening in this strip club. So they modeled their business off of wage theft and then they gaslit all of us to think that that was better for us.
JK: Yes. 100%.
AMD: And then people like me who lose half their foot in an automobile accident don’t have access to disability or unemployment. While, yes, I understand, like, yeah, before all of the changes, it was better for us.
JK: Well, not better.
AMD: Because we weren’t getting stolen from as much.
JK: Not better.
AMD: I’m using air quotes if you’re listening.
JK: Yeah. It’s not, not better. I think the reason I’m pro AB5 is for communities like Lyft and Uber, where they’re clearly not independent contractors. They’re on a schedule. They’re, they’re, um.
AMD: But we were, we were on a schedule.
JK: No, no, no. Sorry. My brain just I was in a car accident also a year ago.
AMD: Oh, that explains it.
JK: Yeah, I was in a head on collision. And, uh, anytime my heart rate gets elevated, which this makes me very, like, this entire discussion
AMD: Well, we’re friends.
JK: Yeah, yeah, no, no. We’re chill. It’s just the topic and the fact that this is still a fucking thing and we still have to fight for rights as sex workers just to be, like, treated the same as every other fucking person.
AMD: That’s what AB5 gives us.
JK: Yes, but I don’t like how it’s changed the way that the club is working, and I, primarily because I find that a lot of women in that community don’t have either the knowledge or the courage to stand up for the club that they’re in, the way that Soldiers of Pole is standing up for sex workers. It’s not, yeah. It’s, there’s like, what, SWOP and Soldiers of Pole, and like, that’s, and that’s it. And those are like the only two major national programs that I know of. There’s the, I think St. James Infirmary is another one.
AMD: International Adult Entertainers, A I E U. Yes. Yeah, there’s that one.
JK: That’s primarily porn stars though, I believe.
AMD: Yes, primarily that.
JK: Those is the people who went up against Instagram, is the IAEA. They did it right before everybody visible created the account that they had like in like whatever and that’s when the shadowbanning got really bad. So there’s like so many different things.
AMD: Yeah, we’re just under attack basically for being women, for being self expressed, for being sex workers. We’re, we’re at, We’re at war. Basically, we’re at, we’re at digital and like, you know, fiscal war with people who, um, you know, these people are just stealing from us or stealing our culture. They’re stealing our money. They’re stealing our rights. And then, um, and then like, you know, FKA Twigs and JLo can pull dance with no problem, you know? So I think it’s, it’s frustrating as all hell.
JK: It’s super frustrating.
AMD: I hear your frustrations with the AB5. Let me tell you my biggest frustration with AB5. It’s um, that the government hasn’t been making sure that the employers are implementing it properly.
JK: Thank you.
AMD: That’s my biggest frustration. Um, but because we have AB5 in place now, we can unionize. And they’re, the only, the barrier left now is educating the strippers that they have all the power. That’s the largest barrier that we have in place. And for also because unions are stigmatized, and there’s a lot of misconceptions around unionizing. So getting the education about the unions themselves, and then giving them education like you have, you actually have all the power if you’re, if you work collectively as a unit, and that’s the biggest barrier. And without AB5, and without these employee rights we want to be able to do that. Yeah. Yeah.
JK: So the negative for me comes from the pole dancing side because in California I can no longer go as an independent contractor to other studios that I don’t actually work at and teach specialty workshops anymore as an independent contractor. So I have to go in as an employee now, like if I went up to San Francisco, I have to go through all of those employee standards and everything, and now I’m getting, now I’m charging whatever the studio charged, it can’t be classified as something different because it’s already, from what I understand, because it’s already under the scope of what the pole dancing studio is.
AMD: I don’t think that’s right. That, I don’t think that’s right. I think that you get classified as an employee, you get your minimum wage, and you get extra. Like as a stripper, you get minimum wage and then you get all the money that you make on top of that.
JK: But studios aren’t doing that.
AMD: Well, that’s on them. And that’s their choice.
JK: That’s, so that’s my personal. Reason for not liking it. It’s right. It’s that’s a personal issue that I have experience with and on-
AMD: Sounds like a personal issue with these employers
JK: Agreed Yeah, but on a wide scale. I’m pro AB5 because I want people to unionize I want us to have like that woman who fell and it’s going all over
AMD: Genea Sky.
JK: Yes. I love her. I’ve worked with her multiple times. She’s incredible and she’s like there’s no reason that she should have fallen other than like All the different factors that go into pole dancing.
AMD: Right, well, she made a mistake and she fell. There’s no reason that she shouldn’t be afforded all kinds of benefits for falling. Um, but it sounds like fortunately for her and I misspoke on another podcast when I said the club did nothing for her. They ended up actually giving her something. I don’t know the details.
JK: After all the press.
AMD: After all the press. Yeah, they did but my point is I misspoke. Um, but yeah, of course, after all the press, they would have gotten so dragged if they didn’t. I think they weren’t initially going to, and then after all the press they did, but I mean, how could you not?
JK: Well, but why does it take so much press to get the same rights as someone who fell up the stairs? That’s the thing that kills me about, like, people who are anti sex work is like, Okay, but you work for Uber or you work at Lyft. Like, that was one of my other fucking things that, like, constantly pissed me off, is if I got a ride home from an Uber It was never a man. The men are always just creepy. You know how men are, but the women would always try to save me if it was a female driver. They’d always try to save me and I’d be like, well, why are you like, why are you Ubering?
AMD: Yeah. I mean, that’s a hella dangerous job for women. Girl, I could keep you here for hours. We’re gonna have to do this again sometimes.
JK: I would love that. Yeah. I have so many. So many opinions.
AMD: We have to get to our other segments.
JK: That’s okay. It’s understandable. You’re covering important topics.
AMD: This is so good, man. We talked for a long, like, longer than I expected we would. That was really good.
JK: I ramble.
Stripper Tips
AMD: Alright, so you’ve had time to think about your stripper tips. Yes. Are you ready to give those out?
JK: I’m very excited for stripper tips.
AMD: Alright, tell us what your stripper tips are.
JK: Um, immediately start saving as soon as you start working. Something from every shift. It’s life changing and I wish that I had- People tell you that and you’re like, Yeah, but it’ll be here forever. And then something happens and now you’re not stripping anymore. You can’t work or whatever.
AMD: What percentage of your income?
JK: Um, so I tried to save, if I made enough, I tried to save like a hundred bucks from every shift just in like a random pile elsewhere. And then I also used my stripper money to pay off my credit cards every month. Okay. So instead of necessarily putting it into a bank account, I was using it to pay down my debt. Which depending on who you are, I would highly recommend that as well, but different strokes for different folks in terms of that. But definitely save something in a savings account separate from everything else that you do with that money. Okay. Just for later.
AMD: Nice. All right. What’s the other one?
JK: Um, you’re just there to work. So be cordial, but like, friendships, if they happen, are great. Like our friendship, I feel like, happened because we started working together. But you’re not there to socialize and neither are the other women, and I wish I had known that when I first started, um, because I, it would have saved me a lot of, yeah, a lot of trouble and a lot of nonsense for me just trying to have friends and them being like, dude, you’re interrupting, like, right, like, stop cock blocking me. And then the last one that I think is really important for baby strippers primarily, because I feel like when we get older, we Oh, we figure it out. Is like, if you frame a question in a way where a negative answer is positive for you, it works out better. So like, instead of being like, hey, do you want to dance or do you want me to, do you want another lap dance? Obviously, we don’t like being sold to just in general, so they’re going to be like, no, I don’t. Thank you. But if you go, Okay. Do you want me to stop? They’re gonna be like, no.
AMD: Oh, that’s cute.
JK: And I’m like, oh, cool, thanks. 20 more dollars.
AMD: Oh, that’s cute.
JK: Yeah. Okay, I like that one. So it’s like Sales Tactics 101, but it’s kind of, uh, It’s hot. It’s, yeah, it’s, and you just whisper it aggressively in their ear while you’re, like, slightly choking them out, and they’re usually, uh, for it.
AMD: Of course. The slightly choking them out trick.
JK: Yeah, just like a soft, sensual, like, aggressive touch right on their throat.
AMD: That’s not scary at all. Okay.
JK: It’s not.