Two Peas (50 Plus a Tip) #19
Danica and AM cross paths and swap podcast interviews. This week’s guest has a podcast of her own – 50 Plus a Tip. Danica is from Canada, is a sex worker, a podcaster and a badass. Spreading the message of education and compassion for all types of people.
*This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* Begin transcript after opening credits.
AM: Hey there everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Yes, a stripper podcast. I wanna talk to you about something pretty deep right now. I’m gonna get a little personal with you. I wanna talk to you about my personal dealings with my own ho phobia that I had leading up to maybe about.
A year and a half, two years ago. But something happened in a conversation I was on with sex workers and I literally had my eyelids just ripped open, practically stapled back onto my forehead and I. I was forced to look at the things that I had said and done in the past when, dealing with this phobias situation.
And I would’ve not have thought I was hore phobic. I was a sex worker for a really long time. But I realized that I was doing things like classifying sex workers and saying like what I thought was good or bad, or I don’t wanna be associated with that. And all kinds of really negative.
Damaging type of things. And I would say that in [00:01:00] doing the more of the activism work that I’ve been doing, and especially doing this podcast, I’ve been so exposed to so many different sex workers and so many like enlightened and intelligent sex workers that have really been able to shed light on how we should be treating each other and speaking to each other in that we can raise each other up.
And that all people and women in all walks of life can be respected for their choices and for what they do with their bodies. And so it’s been quite a journey for me and I experienced shame for a little while. Self shame that I was. Core phobic. But then I started to realize, no, it’s people like me that have been like transformed, that have a larger responsibility to tell everybody else Hey, listen, like I, I know what you’re going through.
I felt this way too, but here’s how it can be. And that’s I just wanna say that’s my commitment. To you as society and to other sex workers is to continuously [00:02:00] admit that I was homophobic and that I wanted to change and I have changed and now I’m a voice for others that, I wanna shepherd others into the light.
Yeah. Our guest today, I actually am truly inspired by some of the posts that she makes on Instagram and by her own podcast, 50 Plus Tips podcast. So I’d like to welcome into the Zoom room. Danica, please say hello, Danica.
Danica: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.
AM: Hi. Thank you for being here.
Yeah, I’m so thrilled. So Danica, for those of you who don’t know, wrote to Yes. A stripper podcast, and I was so honored and thrilled because I’m like, oh my God, like she likes
Danica: me
AM: doing something right, because you have had a podcast for like close to 40 weeks now.
Yeah. And this for us is like episode 18 or 19 so you’re like twice as far along as me.
So thank you for [00:03:00] noticing and for being community,
Danica: yeah, I’m always like creeping new new stripper ventures. I think it’s important as a marginalized community to support one another for sure.
AM: Yeah. And I noticed that you creep on the community because you have, like you ask baby strippers, like you find brand new baby strippers to be on your, some of your episodes.
Danica: Yeah, for
AM: sure. Yeah. Can you talk about like, why. Like what, what inspired that episode particularly? I don’t know if you’ve done more than one, but I did. I was going through your stories and I saw one where you’re like, actually, I’m not a baby stripper anymore and I forget I need a real baby stripper. Can you talk about that?
Danica: Yeah. Not only am I just old and I think I have like early onset, but I just also like the. The landscape of sex work is so much different now it just seven years later than when I started. And the strip clubs are so different that I think it’s important to give voices to the [00:04:00] newbies or the baby strippers that are coming in and what their situation is and what they’re dealing with because.
Part of me forgets, but part of me is just different now. It was a lot more underground. Even just seven years ago. The community wasn’t as strong as it is now. Especially here in Vancouver. I find it’s really taken off in the last few years. But yeah, also too, I think sometimes when you’re new in industry, you feel like your voice isn’t worthy of being heard or you have nothing to say, and I think that’s really doing a disservice.
To the women in the industry. So I think it’s important to also have a safe space for new girls in the industry to, to talk about what they’re going through and that’s how you learn and that’s how you grow, right? Yeah. Not asking questions, but answering them and having that open dialogue with different different levels of expertise.
AM: Yeah. Yeah. I wonder what they know about what it was like for us in seven 10. For me, it was even like 18 years ago. When I started and like I view it as it was better [00:05:00] back then for us. What are your thoughts on that, like then versus now?
Danica: I think there’s definitely pros and cons, like everything.
Yeah. Back then and where I was working was much more like cookie cutter. Like you looked a certain way, you act a certain way. You had big breasts, you were very slender, long hair, natural hair color, no tattoos. So I think it’s good in the sense now that there, they’re a lot more open to different ideas of beauty.
I think that’s a huge step forward. Other pros and cons. Pros that there’s a lot more communication now, and with communication comes more knowledge. So there’s more, eBooks available and things like that, and different sources that new dancers and new sex workers can reach out to and learn about saving and protection and boundaries and all that, where,
AM: yeah,
Danica: that communication wasn’t readily available.
Yeah. Years ago cons over saturation. Yeah. From a more of a selfish standpoint, right? That more women in the [00:06:00] industry, harder to sell, and a lot of new girls coming in can tend to under price, and that’s like a slippery slope to get into, right? Because you don’t want to. Tell a woman what she can sell her services for.
Who am I to tell a woman that $200 is too cheap? But I think likes list, right? Where you’re seeing a lot of young, very young girls coming in, freshly 18 selling, bareback, intercourse, an hour long, two hours long for $200 Canadian, and you’re like. Fuck. Yeah. So that’s, I think that’s one of the biggest cons I feel, and I often hear from what I call veteran dancers and veteran sex workers is the oversaturation takes that that price point down quite a bit.
AM: Yeah, we had a male stripper on one of our episodes who said like that there are some places that are underground here that are like male strip clubs and that they’re doing like bareback, [00:07:00] $1 blow jobs.
Danica: Cool.
AM: Yeah. Yeah. Which is also while at, in one way I see that is undercutting the competition severely at the same time.
Like I don’t think that’s for everyone. And so maybe the same could apply. To that scenario, like I see I get I feel the same way. I am like ’cause that happened in the aerial community too, right? This can be applied across all industries. I remember in New York, in the aerial company when aerial.
Activities started to become more popular at like major events that newer aerialists were like way undercharging and the professional aerialists were getting really pissed. And I think that it’s just what quality are you looking for? And that there is potentially room for everybody, but it does hurt the industry as a whole.
And can we come together somehow and create price points that make sense for all? Or do we just do whatever?
Danica: No [00:08:00] I a hundred percent agree and that I remember I made a post about that. And a lot of, I, I curate a lot of posts in the sense where, I find them online. I try to always give credit where credit’s due.
So I can’t take credit for this one, but there was a post about that saying how lowering your prices and the idea behind it was that lower your prices doesn’t, it doesn’t always bring in the best clients and it like messes with industry and I had a lot of what I call squares, so like non-sex workers, yeah. I’m a hairdresser and I feel the same way and I do nails and it’s the same issue for me. So it’s definitely, yeah, across the board in any especially service industry or where you have more autonomy over your prices yeah, it can really really mess up your. Very selling.
AM: Yeah. It’s just interesting how it’s like an overall generalized like irritant to people who are freelancers and are setting their own prices.
Yeah.
Yeah. So speaking of baby strippers, I think some of the things that I found really interesting, that you have talked about in the past is first your baby stripper crash course. And I just think that’s [00:09:00] great. But it also ties in, I think, with something that you wrote, which is muggles taking pole dance classes because a lot of baby strippers are those muggles, right?
Danica: Yeah.
AM: Yeah. So what are your thoughts on. Muggles taking pole dance classes.
Danica: Yeah. So muggles, squares, civilians. Yeah. All these terms, right? Yeah. And I always say it like, like it’s said in a loving way,
AM: totally. Yeah. We love them.
Danica: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, I. Obviously, pole dancing is without a doubt, and dancing in general is, without a doubt, a great way to stay in shape.
It’s a great way to explore your sensuality a hundred percent for that. My issue is when you see non-sex workers taking a class and then simultaneously shaming, who actually gets paid for doing poll work shaming strippers, and I know [00:10:00] your your name is, is a product of that, yes, I, yes a stripper. Because if I, correct me if I’m wrong, it has to do with the way people were like I’m not a stripper.
AM: Exactly.
Danica: Yeah. I echo the same, I think vision or ideas that you have where it’s like. What, like why are you so adamant to like separate yourself from the community?
AM: Yeah.
Danica: You want to simultaneously enjoy the product of their labor.
AM: Yeah.
Danica: And that’s, we see that very often throughout many avenues. Men who comment on only fans, girls being whores, but then they fully enjoy their free, you’re like, okay.
AM: Don’t you think that’s a symptom of hor phobia, though? Like I don’t want to be associated with them and I’m so terrified that you’ll think that’s me.
Danica: Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. And unfortunately, I spoke with this with a friend recently. Hor phobia isn’t an outsider issue only, right? We see internal stigmatization, internal hor phobia, just with let’s stay in the Corona time right now with girls being online [00:11:00] and they’re like I’m an online girl.
I don’t do in person as if it’s like. I’m not like them. So we see a lot of that issue too. Hey,
AM: Is that, are, is that happening? I haven’t seen that yet.
Danica: Yes. Okay.
AM: There is a certain, like I get asserting your boundaries.
Danica: Oh, for
AM: sure. But to be like, I’m not like that though. That would not me. Yeah. Yeah. What’s wrong with that? That is me. That does it. Yeah. Is there something wrong with what I’m doing?
Danica: No. A hundred I a hundred percent. And I completely echo what you just said. It’s like there’s a very fine line between saying, oh, I don’t offer those services.
It’s very much the intent of how you say things, right? I don’t offer those services, this is what I do. As opposed to, oh no, I don’t do what those girls do.
AM: I had somebody ask me about cuddling, cuddling service once. He didn’t know that’s what he was asking me about, but he was like, I just want someone to hold me and cuddle.
He was very sweet. And I was like, oh, you’re [00:12:00] talking about cuddling service? And he’s oh, is that a thing? And I was like, absolutely, it’s a thing. And I was like but I don’t provide that service. Also, I don’t live in Florida. I would
Danica: consider my bills are,
AM: yeah, I would consider the service. I’ve not considered it.
But then I was like I dunno, maybe I would, why not? But I also was like, but that’s not something that I provide, but I can maybe try to find, and I asked around, I asked my friends and I don’t think that cuddling service is like super prominent and there’s no hashtag for it on Instagram.
I looked.
Danica: Yeah. Yeah. Hashtags on Instagram’s a whole other issue.
AM: Yeah. That’s a whole other, yeah. Yeah, so I, I have a company called United Pole Artists and it’s all about like pole dancing coming up and yeah. And so this episode is gonna come out well after, but like in a couple days, I am going live.
On that account, it’s like 189,000 followers. And I’m gonna tell them what I really think and then I tell them I’m [00:13:00] leaving and I’m closing this account and I’m deleting it.
Danica: Oh, crazy.
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
Danica: What’s the reason behind that?
AM: Yeah, because all I wanna do is this, talk about strippers and sex workers and advocate and change laws and reform an entire industry, and I cannot do that.
Being immersed in the pole dance industry, that’s just not if I write stuff about strippers on UPA, I get a like love but backlash. And that’s a big part of the reason for this podcast is because what is this divide? And then hence also why I was talking about hor phobia. And then when I was listening to your.
Episode you did a respectful call out on somebody else’s podcast about how they were talking about, oh, porn stars are just coked out.
Danica: Yeah.
AM: So rude.
Danica: Yeah.
AM: But that’s what I am a little tired of. It’s like, why? Why is somebody bad or not up to [00:14:00] your personal moral standards because of what they choose to do with their body.
And I’m like really tired of having the same conversation over and over again in the whole community. So I’m like removing myself from the pole community in that sense. And I’m
Danica: just
AM: gonna be like just shoving all of this stripper sex work stuff into their face from now on, from different platforms.
That’s my plan.
Danica: I support it. No. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. You heard that episode? I actually was on their podcast. I dunno when it’s coming out. I just did this last week. Can you, before
AM: you launch into it, tell the audience what episode of yours it was? ’cause I don’t remember. So that they can get context behind this conversation.
Danica: Yes, I
AM: can. Do you remember off the, your head? Episode 33. Okay. Episode 33. It wasn’t the very last one. It was the one before the very last one. Oh God.
Danica: I just, ’cause to this week I’ve done like six episodes on other people’s things, that it’s all blending together now to be honest. ’cause [00:15:00] everything you record everything.
AM: Yeah, totally. 100%. It was 33 insecure girlfriends and ethical porn.
Danica: Yeah,
AM: that’s the one. Thank you. That’s it for going down that road with me. Yeah. So go ahead, launch, do it.
Danica: I, like we said in the first beginning, I’m very much someone who’s constantly looking out, like looking for new mean stripper podcasts, new ventures.
I also try to support local, females or, female identifying people and and just because local, like to support, like to listen to local podcasts and, throw them a follow and whatever.
AM: Yeah.
Danica: And these two individual. Ladies are a little different than me.
Their style’s a little different. It’s more girl chit chat and
AM: yeah,
Danica: horror readings and stuff like that. But they mentioned that they briefly touched you on porn. They asked you, how do you feel about porn? And one of the girls’ response was yeah, porn. All the porn actresses are porn stars.
She called them, are coked out and drug addicts. And that’s why they’re so crazy. [00:16:00] And because I’ve been doing sex work advocacy for long enough that as soon as I like that is said, I’m like,
AM: yeah. Yeah. When you said it, when you read that, when you like said it out loud, I was like, oh no.
Danica: Yeah, like literally listen, and of course I could have just been like, whatever ignorant comment, whatever. But I feel and I say this often, if you wanna be an advocate, if you wanna stand people’s rights, you need to call out people. That is now your job. Because if you let things slide, it’s part of the problem.
That’s what you’re never gonna see change. And it’s not always fun. It’s not always fun to be like, come off as the asshole to be like, Hey, that’s wrong. Hey, we’re gonna talk about this. Hey, I’m gonna confront you on this. It’s not like the best position to always be in, but it’s a necessary evil, right?
If you wanna see change, you have to be that like,
AM: yeah,
Danica: particular that’s no, it’s not okay. And I haven’t used this analogy before. When you wanna be a figurehead or you wanna be at the front of change, you’re often gonna get. Arrows, like you’re gonna be the one at the front getting the arrows hit at you and just having to take it to protect the [00:17:00] people behind you that aren’t ready to come to the front.
So I think that’s part of being a sex worker that’s very out. You just have to accept that. So I sent them that email that you heard me read on the thing, and I think I worded it quite nicely, oh
AM: my God, it was so eloquent.
Danica: It was so beautifully prepared and thoughtful, and not trying to make anybody wrong.
It was
girl,
Danica: it was perfect. Yeah. But I think too, like I’m very, I’m not a, not to be like, I’m amazing, but I’m not a dumb person. I have two degrees, like I’ve done my fair share of university. I’m, I can be quite well spoken when I want to be, when I’m not swearing every, I can’t work and I know how to write.
So I think that’s also important when you wanna call someone. Word and writing it quite clearly and professionally, so they can’t go back at you and be like you’re just a dumb bitch. Is that you’re too stupid for whatever stance you’re having. Yeah. So they had seen it. I saw the scene, good old Instagram and people ignore you.
And they didn’t reply. And I was [00:18:00] like okay. Ignore me. I’m not the one I’m not the one who ignored. My girlfriend, who I sometimes have on my podcast, Riley she’s a much quieter version, she’s very much. Or the pacifier who wants kind of peace and
AM: Yeah.
Danica: So it’s good. It’s a good balance. ’cause sometimes I’m like, I’m gonna kill this suck. Yeah. Nice. But so me and her talked about it. I was like, yeah, they’re going live today. I’m gonna call them out because then you’re, whether you’re gonna ignore it or not, your listeners are gonna see it. Yeah. So I just wrote down saying, Hey once again, didn’t appreciate what you said in last episode regarding porn stars.
I’d like if you like, refer to my message or something like that. And they both were like. When they read it and they were like, I dunno what this girl’s talking about. You had a week to respond to this. You should have messaged us privately. That’s a professional thing to do. I was like, no, I did message you privately and you read it and they’re like we don’t know what you’re talking about.
We’ll talk about this later. So I was like, whatever. So I signed out and then, [00:19:00] they carried on with their life, called me rude and I was not the place to do it, and I should respect their space. Eventually they reach out again because I, me, I’m you dunno me yet, but like I, my friends always joke, I’m like the queen of screenshots.
AM: Yeah.
Danica: There’s that saying, which I got from Real Housewives of Beverly Hills or something where it’s say it. Forget it. Write it, regret it, where it’s like if things are in writing, like they can be used against you.
AM: Yeah.
Danica: So of course I’ll screenshot share. So I screenshot my original message, the date, the scene message.
Here it is again. They were, we actually had a good, back and forth where they’re like, we apologize for, how it was taken or if it offended you, would you like to be on the podcast? I said, yes. So hopefully that podcast coming out or has come up by this time.
But yeah, it was a good conversation. But yeah, I think you have to be that person that call calls out. And I’m, I believe the confrontation doesn’t have to be a negative thing.
AM: 100%. Yeah.
Danica: And I’m all for it. I’ve always been a confrontational person. So
AM: you have, you are a confrontational person.
Danica: Yeah, very much especially, [00:20:00] but I know my boundaries. Like I won’t talk on things I don’t know of. When I guest lecture at the university and people ask, oh, what about men and men stripping, and what about this? I go, that’s a such a valid question. I’m curious myself, but I can’t talk on that because I’m not I don’t identify as a man.
So I think you need to know, know where places to talk. That being said, me and Riley talked about it afterwards, how the response to it and, I provided, everyone’s human. And sometimes when you’re met with. Confrontation you don’t expect you can be taken back and you don’t always have the most put together response.
I forgive them for being like, that was rude, or whatever they said, and it wasn’t the space for it. But that begs to question, it brings to question, if they had said, a racist remark or something about about sexual orientation or something that people are very much, or a lot of people are behind now, would they have said that to the person if they had said, Hey, you said a racist remark and it offended me.
Would they have said, Hey, this isn’t the place. Don’t talk about that here. No. ’cause they would’ve had so much backlash for saying that. So it brings to question, why was it okay to tell you? Tell me that I couldn’t tell you. I was [00:21:00] offended by something. And the only thing that I can come up with is that we don’t view sex workers as having legitimate voice.
So you’re, I can tell you when you can be upset, I can tell you when you can talk about it, and I can shut you down when you’re upset. And I think that’s a real problem. But that’s just me being like, nah, don’t shut me up. Don’t you know.
AM: No, you’re right.
Danica: Not I’m not in no way saying that.
It’s on the same level of like racism and anything like that at all. Just the idea
AM: that it’s ism though. It’s an ism and it’s a serious ism. And you’re right, it’s not racism and and I’m not trying to compare apples to oranges, however sex workers are. Murdered. At a pretty high rate.
Discarded, arrested, treated like shit. Bullied the butt of everyone’s joke.
Danica: Oh yeah.
It’s the metric for failure in our society now. If you fail at something, I’ll be a stripper. I’ll be a sex, I’ll be a prostitute. It’s as if I fail at this, then that’s the end result. [00:22:00]
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
And maybe the degree of seriousness isn’t the same as racism because when you you’re born into the body as opposed to you choose to be a sex worker. At least in the sense that ideally, I don’t want anyone to be forced into sex work and ideally I’m talking about consensual sex work at this point.
Danica: Okay. Yeah.
AM: Yeah, but so it, it’s reminding me of a recent article that just came out. It’s this article by Sasha Cohen and it’s about, sex workers are no longer the butt of the joke they’re making them. And it’s about how, like she opens with this story about Chris Rock basically saying, I just gotta keep my baby off the pole.
Like I’ll have been a good dad if my daughter’s not a stripper. And it’s and one of the things that also like irritates me about American dad is like the dead hooker and the trunk jokes and the all strippers are on meth and have their children locked in their car jokes and it’s just when does that end? And even I was at a,
Danica: yeah.
AM: Yeah. And I was at the [00:23:00] seminar several months around this time last year, and it was in a room of 150 people, and the leader of the seminar knew that I was a stripper. And one of the people stood up and spoke, and they made a stripper joke. In front of the, and the whole room laughed because there it’s okay to laugh at strippers ’cause there’s, none of them are here.
’cause why would stripper be here with all of us normal, healthy people? And I just sat there and everyone laughed and I just sat there and the leader, the speaker immediately looked at me and they’re like, is that the case? And then everyone the whole room was like, huh? ‘Cause then it was like, oh fuck.
Everyone figured out in a split second that y’all just made a joke about a stripper and they’re sitting right here. Yeah. So do you feel good about that now?
Danica: Yeah.
AM: Yeah. And so yeah, and I think that you’re right, that people think it’s okay just to make these flippant remarks [00:24:00] about sex workers and these jokes, and it’s it’s really damaging and painful.
And tiresome.
Danica: Yeah. Yeah. It’s exhausted. We’ve done that joke. You guys laughed enough about it. It’s hilarious. Strippers aren’t, sex workers aren’t humans. We get it. And I think too it’s on a grant, on a scale with our lies and, the stigma that perpetuates ’em and stuff. It starts with things like that, it starts with little remarks about, oh all porn stars are drug addicts. That just perpetuates those like damaging stigmas that like result in never viewing sex workers as humans so they don’t have basic human rights, don’t have workers rights.
Like it’s like the small thing that like leads into all the big things. So I think you need to back it at those small levels. When you’re in a room and someone makes a strip or joke being like. I’m gonna say something on this because that’s not funny. And you’re gonna say that to my face now I would have been like thriving if I was sitting with you in that room.
AM: Yeah. Fortunately it wasn’t a terrible joke, but it was still like, it was [00:25:00] still a joke on behalf of us. It wasn’t like the Chris Rock joke or the dead hooker and the trunk joke. It was like a joke about stripper hours, but it was still like,
Danica: but still. Why is that?
Are making fun of another to get a laugh.
AM: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Very tiresome. I want, so I wanted, there’s a couple things I wanted to. As well, I saw one of your topics as there was a phrase you used which was toxic, monogamy, and girl. That just turned me on so much. So into not monogamy in my relationships, because I do find that the majority of monogamous relationships are toxic.
And that’s been my personal experience. I’m not speaking generally. So can you just touch on like your viewpoints on toxic monogamy and what that means to you?
Danica: Yeah. I [00:26:00] think, and again, like everyone’s entitled to their own views when I speak, it’s a hundred percent my view, my own experiences, my own prerogative, so no one that needs to at me being like, my husband and me are great I saw your husband last weekend.
But but yeah, I just, I think I’ve had enough of experience in my own life or. Vicariously through other people where it’s this idea of you are mine in a sense of like ownership and you can’t have eyes for anyone else. You only get aroused by me. And I just think that breeds such a toxic, unrealistic expectation of like partner roles that, we are human and we can get aroused about other people.
And it can, sometimes you see the extreme where people don’t want their partner looking at porn and they don’t want this. I’m like literally the only person you can have eyes for. And then I also, another side of it too is, we don’t, and this is the analogy I try to use when I explain it to people, is we don’t go to one doctor for everything.
We have different specialists that are good for different areas. It’s a lot to [00:27:00] ask of one person to satisfy you sexually, mentally, emotionally, in every aspect. That’s a huge ask. And personally, like I’m not capable of that for one person. I can’t be everything for them at all times. Yeah. And I think it’s just, yeah, I think you’re just setting someone up for failure to expect that from them, especially for a long period of time, so for me, my nature of work, I’m not technically monogamous because of my nature of work, but I am monogamous as a romantic relationship. Like I do only have one extremely romantic, if you wanna call it that partnership at a time.
AM: Yeah, I’m so like in love with everything you’re saying.
Danica: Oh, yay.
AM: Yeah.
Danica: Good. All bullshit. I’m just joking. But the way in my life, what I’ve found that works is short term, monomy. In the sense, we’re like, Hey, we all have a role to play in each other’s lives. And I like to think that I’m always growing and developing [00:28:00] and, let’s do this in each other’s lives while we’re growing and like working with each other and it works.
And when it doesn’t work, like that’s okay to outgrow people and it’s out okay to outgrow the situation we have right now. And I just I don’t know if I’d ever find a partner who I would be growing with at the same rate, in the same trajectory, at the same type. For an extended period of time, and I don’t wanna stunt my growth and I don’t wanna stunt their growth, and I don’t wanna feel guilty if I am aroused by someone else or something else that they’re not into, or they’re, so I think that’s when it starts to become toxic.
When we stop, we start really boxing our partner into what we think they’re allowed to do or what we expect from them or we put too many demands on them. If that makes sense. Correct. And that being said, like communication’s, everything in that, everything.
And trust and and loyalty in the sense, not necessarily monogamous loyalty, but loyalty and sense.
Were like, I’m loyal to. Your safety and your protection and like your demands, and I see you there and we’ll communicate about it, if that makes sense. Like that kind of loyalty where I’m not gonna intentionally screw you [00:29:00] over.
AM: Yeah. Like a business partner almost.
Danica: Yeah. In a nice way.
And hey, if they wanna pay me.
AM: Yeah. Yeah. So I’ve had people, because I’ve had this way of wanting to be, I was in a seven year long, monogamous relationship. It was really hard. I really wanted to cheat sometimes, but I knew it was breaking his boundaries. And I cheated just a little bit, but, and that’s a different story.
But I’ve talked to people like since then I’ve been like it never again. Never again. I’m never settling, like that’s my boundary is I’m not. Going to be your one and only, and you’re not going to be my one and only for a very, for this years and years. Come on. And so when I talk to people about it, they’re like is this not cause problems?
Doesn’t that create jealousy or like biting or, and I’m like if you have a, even in a healthy, monogamous relationship, if you’re not communicating properly, you’re still gonna have the fighting and then you’re gonna have the. Sneaking around and [00:30:00] cheating, which I see so much of in other people’s romantic lives.
And it’s if you’re just talking and communicating, it’s just like any other relationship, but just people put so much definition and like weight on sex.
In general.
Danica: Yeah, they do. One of the most like solid, and this is again, I don’t know what goes behind closed doors. The experience I’ve had with them, I had them on my podcast.
They are a couple. And they call it their sance, it’s like a slutty renaissance kind of thing. It’s yeah. So they’re like swingers, but they’re like, we don’t call ourselves swingers. ’cause everyone pictures these like old weird people that like go to parties and they’re, in their, they’re
AM: blackfish nets and leather belts.
Danica: Yeah. And they know they’re having their midlife crisis or whatever. But did we, same swingers, by the way,
AM: did we just shame swingers?
No.
Danica: They just don’t call. No, they don’t call. They know, like society, that’s what society looks like. Yeah. They’re swingers. They experiment with other people and they go to swingers clubs and [00:31:00] all that.
So they call us Renaissance because they feel like that resonates more with them. But but Libby and Greg, yeah, they’re on one of my episodes. And the way they speak about their experiences and the way they speak about each other and the way they handle their situation is just so beautiful.
And you can just, they just exude so much love and respect for one another with this idea of I enjoy other people and I enjoy her enjoying other people and vice versa. And, they had, I remember they explained in one part where I, ’cause naturally. People get jealous.
People get felt, feel left out. If you ever had a threesome, there’s awkward moments and you’re like, why touching me? It’s weird, right? They just, they have a thing they say, and I believe it was that they ask each other for a kiss at some point. If they’re feeling left out or they’re feeling they come back themselves.
So yeah, I think there’s people that can really handle relationships. In the non-traditional way so beautifully and so successfully, and I think that’s a real unfortunate view that a lot of people have. But to have a successful [00:32:00] relationship, you’re like monogamous with each other and you’re exactly, you’re one and only for a long period of time and Hey, if that works for you.
Power to you, but it is just, I don’t think it’s realistic for a lot of people.
AM: Not for a lot of people. Yeah. I mean for some people it does seem to work for them, but that’s also because of the existence that they manage, which is like the, a lot of that has to do with their overall beliefs. I think.
And they’re just way of choosing to be. And my way of choosing to be is like, I just wanna explore. I wanna go to parties. I wanna know what this tastes like and what that smells like and what this feels like. I wanna know about you. And also I’m really interested all of a sudden in women with penises, I’m like, I’m pretty sure that I need to like, I need to manifest that happening in my life.
’cause I’ve been talking about it randomly. Few months. And then last night I just happened to find a video of one on PornHub and I was like, yes,
Danica: love it.
AM: What is I wanna try that. Why not? Why? Why are [00:33:00] we set in these parameters of things must be this way. And then also, how do we get people to stop being so hung up on sex when it’s literally the reason we all exist and are here?
Danica: Isn’t that funny? That’s one of the things I say it’s so bizarre that. Sex is such a taboo thing, but it’s the one thing we all have in common and no one wants to talk about it, but everyone’s doing it. Or some people are doing it less asexual or whatever, but,
And we’re so weird about it. And I think the best way to do that is just making safe spaces like a podcast like Instagram pages that are getting shadow banned. So like Twitter pages and things like that. And just, opening up that floor for people to talk in a shameless kind of way.
And, slowly, but sure you see that trickle effect. You might think you only have this small small imprint on changing both lives, but I know I did an episode not to keep shamelessly plugging in my podcast, but No, it’s
AM: fine.
Danica: It’s fine. Originally I was just trying to have sex workers because I said, I just want sex workers to have a voice, and I feel like that’s [00:34:00] so sorely lacking.
And then the more I spoke feel about it, and the more talks I did in like public places where there were squares and that I had more women coming up to me saying, I struggle with this and this is my sexuality and blah, blah, blah. And it took, no, there’s need more space, safe spaces for everyone to talk about sex and what they’re exploring.
And I had an episode with Peaches and Malone, come on. And she’s been in her marriage, I wanna say, for around 15 years around there. And she’s come to a place where she’s I wanna start exploring things. I wanna go to sex parties. I want, I don’t know where that’s gonna take me, but I just, I don’t want, I, my, in my twenties, I was very sexually liberated and I feel like that’s died off.
And I, that’s not what I wanted. For me, I wanted to keep exploring. And and she’s at this point in her life where, not to speak for her, but this kinda what she had said on my podcast was that she was, wanting to get back to her original liberated sexual roots, and her husband wasn’t exactly on board.
And what does that look like and how are they gonna navigate that? And that really resonated with people because I think people are ashamed, especially because of toxic [00:35:00] ma monogamy to come out and say, Hey I’m also wanting to explore and my partner doesn’t. And like, how do we navigate this? And I think giving voices to.
Those people that seem like outliers that are never really outliers, if that makes sense. It opens that door for people to be like, Hey, me too. Yeah. Hey, I experienced this too. Oh, I’m not alone,
AM: yes. I do know. I know, exactly. Yeah. I met someone recently who’s I wanted to explore in my marriage and they didn’t.
And I started noticing like the end of things because. I wanted to talk to sex workers online, and that was considered cheating in their eyes. And then they eventually just like they out they went separate ways because one of them was more interested in learning about their sexual expression and the other was like.
Nah. To all of that. And yeah, I definitely do think I that’s why sex workers are so great because that is we allow [00:36:00] that space for people to understand that it’s okay to explore and like to be like, we will never, ever judge you like you can ask. Talk about talk and tell me your craziest, weirdest fantasy.
And I’ll never be like, Ooh, that’s I’ll never shake my head and,
yeah.
Danica: No. One of the things I always say is I don’t yuck someone’s yum. As long as you’re a consenting adult, I seriously do not give a fuck what orifices you’re using. How many you’re using, what, what’s going in there.
As long as you’re consenting adults, I do not care.
AM: Exactly.
Danica: On the flip side of what you’re saying is also not shaming someone who doesn’t wanna explore, like people are very, and and for lack of a better term, vanilla and there’s nothing wrong with being vanilla.
And I think when you’re in a relationship where you’re coming to the person being like, I wanna explore this, you also have to respect the people might not meet you where you’re at. Yeah. And that too can be hard. When you are super sexually liberated, sometimes we can start, we can go too far and start shaming people that we envision aren’t sexually [00:37:00] liberated.
AM: Yeah.
Danica: Just because it doesn’t look like what we think sexual liberation looks like. Yeah. But yeah, again, like it all comes down to communication and yeah. Having open dialogue and a safe space to do
AM: yeah. So that actually brings me to one other point that I wanted to make sure that we cover, which is you know what to do when your boyfriend.
Isn’t supportive of your sex work, which is tied in.
Danica: Cut him out.
AM: Yeah, exactly.
Danica: Yeah. You know what I, because I’ve been, I’m 29 now, right? So I have been in sex work for the majority of my twenties, which is a huge growing period of your life, especially with navigating relationships and becoming, you go through these.
Not so serious relationships and you start to develop your own and whatnot. And I’ve met people that have been like, oh, that’s awesome what you do. I’m super like, yay, feminism. I’m like, do what you want with your body. And that usually lasts till about two months. And then suddenly not [00:38:00] so cool.
Or I find too, a lot of people, it’s really hot to fuck a stripper, really hot to fucking date a stripper. Really hot to tell their buddies about the stripper.
AM: Yeah.
Danica: And it gets too serious. And now it’s wait, but I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna marry a stripper. I don’t wanna tell my parents about a stripper.
So this like horror phobia is very prevalent with that. And I think it’s because we have this like horror Madonna complex still very much alive, where the mother is like this Madonna and she has to be this virginal thing, or you’re a fucking whore. It’s these two polarizing ideas and for some reason they, people have trouble meshing that.
Which is one of the reasons why I love talking with women who are mothers and, have had sex successful relationships. Not that’s, a metric for success, but because it goes against this idea of Core Madonna complex. But yeah, so I’ve experienced a lot of that where it’s like I’m super hot and it’s super hot to date me and oh, but I don’t want my parents meeting you.
AM: Yes, queen. And me too. I have been broken up over my Instagram account [00:39:00] before. I love your Instagram account. I show it to my friends and then a month later it’s like, what am I gonna tell my mom? Literally,
Danica: yeah.
AM: Goes through his words, what am I gonna, and I was like my bubbles and verse like, how dare you?
Yeah. Yeah. I was cool. I was a novelty and now I’m being cast aside.
Danica: They hate, they love and hate you for the same shit. And then I also get too, when people date you, so I like, this is me putting mascara on and that’s like the most you’re gonna get from me on like my best days. And I just don’t, I truly do not give a fuck.
And. I, you’re not gonna see me wearing laundry at home. Sorry to burst everyone’s bubbles right now. I’m not gonna be wearing my ples around the house unless I’m making content. And it’s funny, these envisions people have in their head when they get a stripper you’re gonna back flip on their dick every night and know you’re like a porn star all the time.
I think that kind of rocks their world sometimes too, right? Yeah. But the biggest problem for me is, this idea of what are you gonna do when we get married? What are you gonna do when we have kids? Are you, what are you gonna tell the kids? Are you gonna be a stripper forever, blah, blah, blah.
That’s been a, that’s been an [00:40:00] issue, but I’m at a point in my life right now. I was previously in a relationship and for about a year and a half, and he was quite supportive. I even would invite him when I had clients who liked like voyeurism. Would to watch way of showing him aren’t.
Things on social, like the way that media portrays it, there are all these like really creepy, disgusting men who like take advantage. Normal
AM: people. Yeah.
Danica: Yeah. He saw that. He’s oh, are these like all your clients? I’m like, yeah. Like I have autonomy over who I choose and I choose like respectful good men.
‘Cause they’re out there as clients more so than not in my experience. Yeah. So that was a good way of like pulling back that curtain a bit for him. But it was the, it was his family I had the most issue with for sure in that relationship was, they were devote Mormons and
AM: oh yeah.
Okay. Yeah. As soon as I said, they’re like, oh. Yeah. Okay.
Danica: Oh,
AM: the [00:41:00] Mormons. Yeah.
Danica: And if he did something wrong, like if he got caught lying or cheating and there’s a part once he was a little physically not literally, he was quite physically abusive at one point, and, his mom was like you’re a stripper.
It’s too hard for him.
AM: Oh
Danica: my God. I was like, I I literally called her. I was like you’re the problem. You en encourage this like horrible, toxic masculinity and victim blame. She didn’t like that, but that’s okay.
AM: Yeah, of course she didn’t like that. Of course, she didn’t. Yeah.
Danica: Call though, right?
But is, yeah. It it’s hard. It’s fucking hard.
AM: Yeah. And you gotta let ’em go. That you gotta let ’em go. It’s either that or you spend hours and hours of educating them, if you really, truly wanna make it work it takes a lot of patience and it’s just.
Danica: In therapy, go to therapy, there’s nothing wrong.
Totally. I think all relationships should go to therapy. People in general I think should go to therapy. There’s nothing wrong with it. You don’t need to be broken to go to therapy.
AM: Oh no. We all need therapy.
Danica: Yeah. You just gain more tools and that can be very helpful in a relationship. Especially one that’s going through
AM: Yeah.
Danica: Sex work and stuff like that. [00:42:00]
AM: Danika, I knew this was gonna happen. I have more things I wanna talk to you about and the time is ticking by, but I’m gonna bring up this one last thing and this is gonna be it and I promise. Your post on Instagram about Mrs. Ms. And miss that women have to be identified as a MRS as married, MS as widowed, or an adult woman, not married or miss as a young, unmarried woman.
And Mr is just fucking mister. And why do you have to define women by their fucking marital status? And I was like, oh my God, I have never thought of it that way before.
Danica: Yeah.
AM: And now I’m like, okay, what do we call You’re second? What is it? What do we all have? That’s Mr.
Danica: Yeah, I know, right?
So I, from what I always gathered, Ms was supposed to be this like un identifying you’re, you could be missed. You could be missed. You could be MISS, you could [00:43:00] be MRS. That’s how I’ve always just used MS if I need to. Yeah. I also feel like with the, people coming into more of this idea that, how people self-identify and then being much more accepting, I would like to think we’ll start seeing that completely off.
Forms that we had to fill out because what the fuck does that do with anything? I also see that a lot this this kind of like owner are you owned by a man? Then you’re worthy, or like this male, our identity constantly being associated with the men in our life and that I see it really prevalent when people ask you out, if you say oh, I’m not interested.
They go, why are you dating someone? As if that’s the only justification for you not wanting them. And then if you say yes or no, they act accordingly. It can’t just be like, no, I’m single, I just don’t want you,
AM: Yes. Because I’ve been struggling with lately ’cause I used to do this.
When somebody would ask me out and I didn’t wanna say yes, be like, oh no, I have a boyfriend. And I’m like, I’m never fucking doing
Danica: that again. I decided like
AM: a few years ago.
Danica: Yeah, but it’s, [00:44:00] and that’s completely fair you did that because it seems like the only way people will fuck off. Is that they think that another man already owns you, and they’re like, oh, okay.
She’s already called for. It’s not like you can have your own autonomy and just say, Hey, I don’t want you, isn’t it wild?
AM: No, I know. I know. But it’s still like even knowing that even like truly knowing that to my core, like. Saying to someone, no, thank you because I’m trying to talk to, I talked to my mom about a lot of stuff and I told my mom, somebody asked her out recently and I was like, you don’t wanna do it, mom.
All you have to say is no thank you. You don’t have to explain yourself. You don’t have to say, I’m called
Danica: for, yeah. And also, can you imagine if a, if you asked a guy out and he was like, oh I’m not interested. Thank you. Would you ever then respond would you have a girlfriend? I don’t think I would ever say that.
I’d be like, okay, he’s not interested. I don’t need justification. Yeah. Lemme convince him to gimme a chance. Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
Danica: It’s so weird.
AM: Yeah. I’m seriously, like [00:45:00] from now on, just being like, no thing. And I think I have, I think I have done it re before quarantine when I actually could see men in real life.
Danica: What are those
AM: things? Deja vu. Yeah. But yeah. Wow. So I’m so grateful for that post. Thank you. Because like I never had looked at it that way before and it’s just so clear and obvious.
Danica: I can’t take full credit. I totally stole that post from someone and I always tag whoever the person is.
AM: Yeah.
Danica: Usually it’s let’s let it up. Or another larger Instagram. Why not share their content so
AM: well? Whatever. I found it through you, so thank you for making that more visible via whoever originally posted it.
Danica: Wanna be fabulous. Just like these strippers. Pay attention.
AM: It’s stripper tips.
Danica: Okay, Danica, tell everyone what your stripper tip is, please. Since you listen to my podcast, I can literally do a whole episode on tips. And I very much like to, [00:46:00] because if I’ve learned it the hard way, why should you have to? But the biggest thing and very much prevalent right now with corona situation is saving. When I worked in Fort Mac when I first started, we made insane fucking money. And do you know how much I spent insane fucking money? Like you and I know sash has said it on the episode, you start to hemorrhage like money when you make good money.
And that was the biggest thing. And I think again, that’s something I’ve seen change a lot in the industry over the years is the business mindset of girls now in the industry is so much better than it used to be. But yeah save. Now what I try to do is I try to spend 10% of what I make each shift is if I make a really good shift, okay?
So say I make. Okay. For tax reasons, I don’t wanna say how much I make, but say I make like a good amount of money I’ll let myself have 10% of that spending and the rest is going between into my savings or into like bills. And then, and I average that out if it was like, I made 50 bucks on a shift ’cause it was horrible and the club was dead.
Okay. I’m not gonna be like [00:47:00] $5, but but yeah, just saving and having a plan and investing it and that’s the biggest thing in investing. And if you don’t know because our education system does fuck all for telling you how to properly invest money. Unfortunately, we learn more about or whatever that fucking was.
AM: Geometry, which I did
not.
Danica: Yeah, co cosign.
AM: Yeah.
Danica: Yeah, take courses. A lot of universities offer free courses for continuing education or very cheap courses for money management. So definitely take those, it just pays off literally long term. So I’ll give you three quick tips.
Okay. Know your boundaries, and that’s one of the things. And it’s okay to learn your boundaries as you go. If you make a mistake and you slip up and you do something and you go home at night and you’re like, I did not like that, I do not feel comfortable. You’re not obligated to continue doing whatever you just did, that you didn’t like, like it’s okay to explore and find those boundaries and
Yeah. And state them. When, like when you need to and if you lose clients ’cause of that or. Or bookers or whatever, like it’s worth it in the long run for like your mental [00:48:00] state and longevity in this career, I found like I will lose certain clients and I’m okay with that as long as like my mental state is like happy with that boundary I set in place.
And it’s okay to pull back those boundaries or explore accordingly to how you’re feeling each day. Some days I’m much more explorative with what I wanna do, and then some days I’m like, today I’m just not, I don’t wanna, I don’t, I’m not there right now.
AM: Totally. Yeah.
Danica: And our third tip is respect people’s time and energy.
So this is more so for clients. If you’re reaching out to a sex worker, the best thing to do is to tip them to message you back. ‘Cause especially if you’re, or if you’re a newer stripper and you’re asking other ones for advice. Either to tip them or to offer them some kind of whatever you can.
So if you have a large following, offer them promotion, things like that. Just to I know even for me and you, hey, let’s do an exchange. Let’s have each other on ’cause we both are, we’re both working towards something and we both, yeah. Find value, there’s time and we can help each other.
And that kind of community in respecting other [00:49:00] people’s time and energy is huge. And it’ll come back. And especially in a community like this, it comes back tenfold.
AM: Totally. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you so much.
Danica: Get ready for our rapid fire question round. It’s time for four
AM: for one. What do you think is the sexiest animal?
Ooh tiger. Oh yeah. Tigers are great. Name one thing on your sexual bucket list.
Danica: Oh, you know what? I really wanna go to a Comic-Con thing, and I know that’s not really sexual, but like I’d like to go to the dirtier Comic-Con version.
AM: Yeah. A sexual comic con.
Danica: Yeah, because I love Mono Mimi and I love that shit. So yeah.
AM: Hot. Okay. That can we just make that happen? A sexual, with like orgy rooms and cause plates, sex.
Danica: Those are getting hard. I’m [00:50:00] here for it.
AM: What’s your favorite thing about quarantine?
Danica: It’s just, it’s honestly kicked my butt in the sense where I am going more full throttle on my online stuff. Like my only fan stuff. I have a schedule now that I do. And then my podcast, I’ve been more adamant about reaching out to people and usually I’m very passive and like he’ll come to me.
So it’s really, yeah, it’s made me more productive in a sense with my online work.
AM: Perfect. And lastly, who’s the sex worker activist that everyone should know about?
Danica: Okay. So there’s a lot. Number
AM: one.
Danica: Okay. I’m totally blanking. Okay. I don’t know. She’s not a sex worker herself. Okay. But she has a lot of work with sexuality,
AM: Uhhuh
Danica: and Nicole Hodges. And she has a she, it’s called Girls who Say Fuck is her brand. And she’s so kick ass. She has this thing called men who take Baths.
So it’s scores masculine energy and what that looks like. And me and her have a. Sex worker thing coming up in the making [00:51:00] so
AM: lovely. I love it. Everyone needs to know. Perfect.
Speaking of things that people need to know, I did look up the article that we were talking about as far as making jokes about sex workers written by Sasha Cohen.
It’s on bitch media.org. So if any of you wanna find that article that we were talking about earlier in this podcast, you can look that up. And then please, Danica. Tell everyone how we can find out more about you and about your podcast.
Danica: Cool. Okay, so my podcast is called 50 plus a Tip. It’s on Spotify, Stitcher, Google Play, Google Podcast, and 50 plus tip.com.
Apple Music refuses to love me, but we’re working on it. It’s a growing relationship. And the podcast episode or Instagram is. At five zero plus a tip, my work Instagram is at Danica darling ig. Danica with a c. If you want to see my vulva and give me all your money, my OnlyFans is onlyfans.com/danica darling.
And you can find me on [00:52:00] Twitter and Reddi, same thing, Danica Dar.
AM: Amazing. What a pleasure. This has been so fun.
Danica: Yeah, it has been. Thank you so much for having me.
AM: You’re so welcome. I’m very excited to be on your podcast very soon.
Danica: Yes.