YAS Podcast: Akynos BSWC #145 Transcript
In this episode of YAS Podcast, host NatsHoney speaks with Akynos, founder and director of the Black Sex Worker Collective. They discuss the formation and purpose of the collective, the importance of preserving sex worker history, and the numerous challenges faced by Black sex workers, including financial struggles and systemic discrimination. Akynos highlights the significance of community support, engagement, and truthful representation of sex workers in media. The episode also touches on Akynos’s environmental performance piece, ‘I Didn’t Mean To Turn You On,’ and the newly opened BSWC community space in Berlin.
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*This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* Begin transcript after opening credits.
Nats: My name is Nats Honey, and I will be your host today on YAS Podcast. Um, thank you for being here with us. Really appreciate that. Um, before we get into today’s episode, I wanted to remind you that YAS Podcast is produced by YAS Work, a nonprofit organization dedicated to changing public perception through media. If you love our podcast, please consider donating donations like yours. Keep this project going. Head to [00:02:00] yaswork.org/donate and visit us. Okay. Um, again, I’m Nats Honey, a little bit about me, local to Los Angeles, um, sex worker for many years, over 20, I believe, and really, really, really excited to talk to today’s guest.
I can’t, I can’t express that enough. Um, our guest today is Akynos, the founder and director of the Black Sex Worker Collective. Hi Akynos.
Akynos: Hi Na. Thanks for having me. Can you hear me okay?
Nats: We can. I can hear you. Okay. I can see you. Okay. You look great. I’m really happy to see both of us on the screen. It’s always, I always get really excited whenever I can see the both of us in the same room.
It fills me with hope so, even though I might start sweating ’cause it’s hot as hell in LA at 10 o’clock in the morning. I am [00:03:00] super dope.
Akynos: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Nats: Just excited to be here.
Akynos: I’m excited to be here too. I’m a little sick, but I’m here. Um, and I just came from a full little shoot, which is why my, I have so much makeup on for a project that I have to, uh, premiere next week in Berlin.
But I am, I’m here, but I might not have as much energy as I normally would ’cause I don’t feel so great. But I’m here. Thanks for having me again.
Nats: See, the
great thing about you, Akynos, is. Your presence is all that is needed. You know, your energy levels can go from high to low. It doesn’t matter. It’s what’s coming out of your mouth at any given point that we all need to pay attention to.
So, uh.
Akynos: Yay.
Nats: Yes. You know, I and I,
Akynos: let’s see what comes outta my mouth.
Nats: Let’s, let’s not go with, uh, today’s topics just yet in the media. Let’s start with the Black Sex Worker Collective. I would love to know, um, when it was formed, why it was formed, and, and [00:04:00] what that process was like for you.
Akynos: Um, so it was formed in 2018 in Brooklyn, New York, where I grew up. And we were formed, um, under the whole, actually it was like the early stages for, I’d like to just say for adult and adult industry professionals, code word. It was formed, uh, from that entire structure of the de platforming, the beginning of the de platforming phase and the discrimination of industry pros being in online spaces and conflating the work to the trafficking narrative. So this basically came out of the SESTA/FOSTA and the the taking down the seizure of backpage.com. [00:05:00] And just all that stuff that was happening during 2018 in, in American politics at that time.
And at that time when I decided to form the group, it had been at least a three year, uh, brainchild. That I just, you know, there were like many instances that were taking place over the course of those years that I was like, okay, this would be a good time to form it now. This would be a good time. So then this happened, um, particularly around SESTA/FOSTA, and I was like, okay, so we’re really in trouble now.
At that point, there was no really black led black, uh, sex worker led groups, at least in New York. Like there were obviously black sex workers, but a space that was very specifically for us, by us to my knowledge, did not really exist. It at least was not in the, the, the, the, the regular framework, like within conversation.
Because a lot of the groups I was a part of, I was [00:06:00] one of very few black sex workers, and they were always led by non-black sex workers, particularly black, non-black women. Um. So anyway, uh, that is a how and how it was formed. And, um, we had our very first like community meeting in a, in a bar that I was working at in Brooklyn off Atlantic Avenue, where we had discussions about like, um, different strategies and what to expect and just some history.
And we didn’t, A lot of black sex workers just got together that day in Brooklyn and that was, you know, how the, pretty much how the group was formed. And, and we’re still here, uh, I don’t know how many years. What? Seven? I think we just celebrated seven years. Has it only been seven? Yeah, I think it’s seven years.
Nats: Honestly, all I know is that yes, it needed to exist.
Akynos: Yeah.
Nats: I have dance the early two thousands and always wanted something like that, and it never existed. So the fact that [00:07:00] you did it. Making it happening and making it happen. It really, it soothes my spirit to know that there are workers that are coming up now that have a place to go to and a community that they can tap into for resources and tools and all of the things that just make them better individuals all the way around.
So I really, really thank you for that. Um, one of the other things that I really, really love about everything that you do, the pronouns that you use. So if we can just kind of, if you would share your pronouns with everyone, that would be fantastic.
Akynos: Yeah. So my pronouns are sex worker, king, the vagina. It. She, he they, them. It’s, it’s a lot of pronouns. I am, you know, but usually if I have a, I have to put something down on like an application or something, I typically just go with sex worker, um, [00:08:00] friends call me king. People that know me just, you know, call me king.
’cause I’m always like,
Nats: love that.
Akynos: No, I’m not a queen, I’m a king, I’m a woman king. Um, so usually sex worker or king. Or king, but it, the vagina. The whore. A whore. I like whore, you know? Um, yeah, the bitch bitch. It’s like, it’s all of these. Yeah. That, like for my, my, my, uh, my thesis for grad school, uh, yeah. It’s, it’s there.
It’s that those are all the pronouns that I go by. Sex worker, king it, she the vagina whore. Like I
I’m open to all of ’em.
Nats: Um, one of the things that I would really like to know, ’cause I think maybe can help others. That want to be in a place of leadership, I’d like to know some of the biggest challenges that you faced, and that can be either as an individual as you’ve been on this road or that BSWC has faced and your biggest wins.
So, you know, give us, give us both of those.
Akynos: I mean, I can complain all day about [00:09:00] the biggest challenges. It’s the. The biggest part of being an advocate is, um, uh, you know, the biggest cha- Okay, so we all know the biggest challenge always is money. It’s always like, yeah, money, uh, you know, being taken seriously to get money. Because unfortunately sex workers, particularly black sex workers, still kind of like a pariah and we’re not, you know, seen as, I guess, desperate enough because this is a choice to be in this industry and we could just be doing anything else.
I mean, like, I dunno what, um, but we could be doing so much else. So we’re not really a priority. So when it comes to getting funds, uh, sometimes we’re just getting money from the same, like four hoes just like. You know, the rotating the money that we might get into each other. It’s like not always, not often new money, you know?
And even if we do get funding, we’re usually getting it from pretty much the same funders. So as, you know, like for the group, [00:10:00] uh, for instance, like the, like the biggest challenge is like trying to get to the next level of funding, which is a monster if you’re not keeping really tight records. So if you are gonna do this, you, when it comes to your financial records, really keep tight, tight records, because if you’re trying to get like six figure funding or, or federal funding or something like that, state funding, it requires that you have some goddamn good, uh, bookkeeping.
The finances, keeping track of the finances is not my strong suit. But, um, you know, like we, we come from this really, uh, what do you call it? This, uh, quote for lack of better term, fast money environment.
You know, like in terms of our work. So we might not all have the most strict bookkeeping mechanisms. But now is the time to develop those skills. Because if you go into organizing, even if you’re doing something grassroots, if you wanna get to the next level, you’re not gonna be able to do it. If your record keeping is not up to snuff, it’s just, that’s just the way it is.
I don’t make the rules. I’m just reporting it. Right. So, um, [00:11:00] funding is always an issue and it’s usually the same funders that are giving us money or the same hoes that are just like, Hey, let’s just share it. So there’s that. Um, and the other challenge is, uh, you know, being black and you’re not taken seriously when you are black.
A black woman, you know, it’s like. For me, no matter how much I have proven people wrong, it’s still like I still have to keep fighting to prove people. Like I know I joke around a lot, I laugh when I joke, but I don’t actually play. I’m a very serious person, but okay. Sometimes people don’t realize that because I have like a kind of a, a young kind of spirit that people just don’t, I don’t think people take that seriously and they, I don’t know maybe ’cause I’m also really itty bitty short.
Um, it just, I don’t seem threatening in that regard to people, so I, I don’t, I don’t fucking know, but it’s just like, just not being taken seriously, you know? Um, whether it’s funders or whether it’s even the community. Um, I, I think one of the main [00:12:00] challenges is really getting the black sex worker community to understand that for me as a leader, I, I, I, uh, consider every black sex worker part of the BSWC.
They just haven’t come home to us yet. You know, they, they, they haven’t tapped in yet. Um, but sometimes, sometimes it’s very difficult for them to be like, it’s safe. You can come in and you can create, but this is fucking work. So even if people do come in, they also don’t realize that this is actual work, you know?
Um, I went to Goddard College, rest in Peace to Goddard College . We created our own, um, our own, uh, learning plan. Yeah, it was a distant learning school where we would go on campus, um, just like, uh, uh, what a, a week out of every semester we would, uh, every six months we would go on campus and we’d meet the advisors that were gonna be a part of that, that, um, semester and other students that are coming in from different parts of the world, different parts of the country, I should [00:13:00] say.
Um, so that, you know, I went to that school because that’s kind of how I was just as a person where I just felt like, you know, we needed to be not necessarily in these like, uh, these, these structured, um, learning environments that, you know, everything that we do, we’re learning and we’re masters of our own craft.
Everything that we do, even if we’re not formally educated. And it does not mean that you are not a master, you’re not a, a doctorate or whatever. So like Goddard was kind of like that space to kind of strip that, strip down the formal structures and have you learning in a more organic kind of way that you had a lot of control of.
So I bring a lot of that knowledge into the group and how it’s structured. So people come in sometimes and they think it’s a fucking joke and it’s like. Actually, this isn’t a joke. This isn’t a, like, you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta put in your sweat equity. Um, if you take on a task, you actually have to finish it.
Um, so yeah, people come in and this, you know, brings it back to like, [00:14:00] I, I don’t think people take me seriously sometime because. We get a lot of members that have come and, and they have gone, but like, either they’re not taking it seriously to really follow through, or they’re expecting it to be the most perfect space.
And it’s like this is actually a grassroots space. And we’re not a formal environment. We’re not like a a, a. A white collar workspace where we have like these stringent rules. You know, we are pulling from different like ancestral knowledges and different, uh, backgrounds in like, in like, you know, civil rights activism and human rights activism coming out of the black experience.
And sometimes people don’t look that. Um, I, listen again, I can complain about all the challenges for a very long time. There’s a lot,
Nats: you can say
complain, but I say express, but I’ll say those are the top, I think expresses the word like you are and you’re letting us know, like, these are, these are the terms.
This is what happens. If you’re coming into this space, be aware of it. You know, tread with caution. Know, know your [00:15:00] role.
Akynos: Yeah.
Nats: Know what’s a little bit of what to be expected.
Akynos: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People, you know, I don’t know. Sometimes I think they come in wanting it to be something and then it’s not. Uh, and sometimes, and that, you know, I’ve had a lot of discussions with people before, like people that I confide in, like, I don’t really think people like this thing that they ask for, which is a, a more loose space that they can create and be in.
I think they want, they, I think our community confuses, uh, being a milit, a militant and an overseer with strength. And they have an issue seeing softness and seeing, um, openness as, as strength, and something that they should aspire to and should try to reach for. And it’s just, it’s wreaked havoc on my existence in this community.
So yeah,
Nats: there’s, there, there’s been a couple.
There’s been a couple of ways
Akynos: in terms of that,
Nats: that, [00:16:00] um, we’ve came together over this last year. Um, I did some things with, uh, the Black Sex Worker Collective.
Akynos: Yeah.
Nats: Which Strippers United in the long past virtual shows. I think we did a fundraiser, stuff like that.
But this year, I believe this year, the villainous conference, was that this year or, or late last year.
Akynos: No, it was, it’s still, we’re still under the villainous theme. That’s our theme for this year. It’s all about villain, you know, embracing the villainous side of you and being prepared and, and whatnot.
Nats: You, you had a post on social media, a personal, like a personal post of yours, and you said, get your boots on.
It’s time to go. Let’s go get this money. Like, uh, enter an era in which we’re- You’re doing your best and nothing can stop you from doing your best. Like put the heels on, put the boots on, let’s go to work, let’s make it happen. And normally I am like a very soft, like I approach. Everything’s very, very soft.
’cause life has already been hard [00:17:00] enough. And when you did that, it reminded me of like, no, there’s a balance to this. Let me be of- others, I hope others can, you know, maybe soften a little bit or maintain their willingness, whatever they would like to do. Can you tell us a little bit about that conference?
Yeah. Like it was multiple days, plenty of people participated. Uh, give the people a little bit about that.
Akynos: Yeah. Well, so plenty of people did not participate. And when I say not, I’m talking not the community, which till this day pisses me off. So I’m even gonna sit here and be like, oh my God. Like so many people showed up. No, the fuck they did not. And what a shame, because there was so many amazing presentations.
So many amazing presentations from academics to community members, to health professionals, to people that were teaching about, uh, self-defense and how, and using plant as medicine, some of the in-person sessions. And unfortunately the community didn’t show up. So I don’t know if it was an algorithm thing.[00:18:00]
Or what in the world was going on. But unfortunately, so many people missed out on the, the live events. Um, it’s still available on our website if folks wanna donate and be able to, uh, there’s an Eventbrite still up where people can buy and have access to the, a lot of the recorded sessions. Um, that’s moving very slowly.
Whatever. I find out what the, the things that I, uh, I do, people take a long time to catch on, so folks will catch on eventually. So I’m just like, well, whatever
Nats: sounds like you’re a trendsetter,
Akynos: you know?
But I am,
Nats: you know,
sometimes people catch.
Akynos: I am the trendsetter and I can see the future. So it was like, you can catch up.
I’ll be, I’ll be out there doing something By the time you decide that you want to take this seriously, so it’s fine. You know, unfortunately, a lot of the community did not show up, but it, whoever needed was there, needed to be there, and it was, it was absolutely fantastic. Um, and yeah, the conference is there about trying to prepare ourselves for this obvious thing that [00:19:00] we’re in right now, which is a recession, which is, um, pushing back against, you know, the regime and their, this is the, the pendulum swing that has happened where, you know, black lives matter less, you know? Um, and we’re, uh, putting people that have a history of being absolutely terrible business people, among other things in positions of incredible power, a very, um, incompetent people of the palm color that, uh, like couldn’t light a candle to even the most, um. Uh, un uneducated for lack of, I don’t even wanna say uneducated.
Uh, not, not even to the most basic of community organizers. Let’s put it like that. Like even to somebody who’s just now coming, when I say basic, I mean like, even a newbie could, couldn’t, you know, they couldn’t hold a candle
Nats: mm-hmm.
Akynos: To, to the newest baby community member in our, you know, in our organizing spaces.
Um, so it was all about that and how [00:20:00] how do we take care of each other, you know, while, while we’re arguing. ’cause everybody’s fighting right now. I got beef, you know? Um, how do we take care of each other in the, in the event of fire happens or a storm happens? How do we prepare for that? Because we’re living our lives, like everything is hunky dory.
But really and truly, all of us are on the brink of desperation. You know, we are on the, the brink of living in these situations that we could, can’t even imagine the things that we’re not really paying attention to, because we’re in our, for lack of better term, our first world bubble. And we’re not recognizing what’s happening to the rest of the people like us outside of this first world bubble.
And I think we’re so comfortable with the scraps that we are given, that we, we kind of like, are nestled in mediocracy and just being kind of just not really caring and, you know, uh, what are we gonna do about that? So the conference was all about that, how to preserve your history because one of the main things that is really important to me.
Um. As [00:21:00] an advocate is that we preserve our history. ’cause it’s so very clear that they’re, they’re trying to rewrite it there, there’s revisionist history going on everywhere. And once upon a time, you know, they, uh, uh, did a whole revisionist history on, you know, matriarchies and, and women being in positions of extreme power and, and adoration.
And now we’re in this patriarchal society. And then it, it is taking us generations to find out, oh my God, there were these books that were written where they’re talking about the history of the snake and what that meant with feminism and all of these things. Yeah. Because they rewrote the history and they’re gonna do it again.
And we’re not really preparing to kind of make sure that once they, they, they do their thing and they, you know, uh, the powers that be, they wipe out all the libraries and all those things that we can still have our, like our, um, underground archives of, of some sort, whatever. So the conference was all about that, like just being prepared and understanding what is happening and yeah, a lot of people missed out, but.
It’s still online. It’ll be online for as long as we can have it there, so you can go see it. [00:22:00]
Nats: So let’s do that. Like, let’s just encourage everybody right here, right now, after you’re finished listening to this podcast, you’re done watching. I want you to head over to the event Bright. I’m pretty sure we’re gonna have a link somewhere.
They need to check it out.
Akynos: Yeah. It
Nats: was three days of Pure Magic. I really wanted to be there in person and it
Akynos: was actually a
really good conference.
Nats: It’s those
like resources and tools that the community really, really needs, you know, and it was a very inviting space. So, uh, if you didn’t catch it. Earlier this year, then look at that, Eventbrite, check it out.
It’s literally giving you tools and knowledge on how to kind of maintain and handle. So please do that. Please, please, please. And I really hope that, are we talking about having another conference same time next year?
Akynos: Yeah, we actually should be, if we’re gonna plan it, actually the planning has to start now.
I just don’t wanna be the one running it. So there is another community member that wants to do it, and I’m like, as long as you run it, ’cause I’m not doing it, you know?
Nats: Oh, [00:23:00] okay. Okay.
Akynos: Anybody, like, we’re about to have our open meetings, so anybody really and truly that’s a part of the collective that they wanna do it.
Just run the conference. I don’t have to run everything.
Nats: I hear you on that. I hear you.
Yeah. I was like, somebody said,
Akynos: that’s a collective help.
Nats: I hear you on that.
Akynos: Yeah.
Nats: I truly, truly do.
Akynos: Have it..
Nats: Yeah.
Like take it, go right ahead. Well, whoever is doing it, please, please invite me again, I would love to participate.
Um, yeah, I just, I would love to participate. Just like you, the, like I did so. Mm. I wish I had another hour in the day. I really, really do.
Akynos: I know,
Nats: I, I really wish I had a, a little bit more time between being a, a mom full time and then also over, I think it’s, uh, three different organizations right now.
Uh, it’s, it’s a lot, but I would love to, if I need
Akynos: it’s lot,
Nats: if I need to help in order to make it happen, put my name [00:24:00] down.
Akynos: Yeah.
Nats: For sure. You know what I mean?
Akynos: You got it.
Nats: It doesn’t need to all be on you. This, uh, it benefits me. It benefits the community. That means I’m in it. So, you know, if, if I do need to be tapped in, whether it be you or whoever else is running it next time around, tap me.
I am here to be of service. Okay? So, yeah.
Akynos: You got it. Yeah.
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Nats: Um, you have an environmental performance piece coming up. Can you share a little about that?
Akynos: Yeah, that’s why I’m in this makeup.
Nats: Okay.
Akynos: Um, we are, I, so I have, uh, so there’s a show I’ve been working on, uh, something from three years ago.
I, it came to me after visiting West Africa and, um. Just being like shocked and, um, that I was listening to
I didn’t mean to turn you one, not ’cause I think when I went to West Africa I was like, I kind of wanna talk about this in some art. And then the Shell song, I didn’t mean to turn you, turn you on, came on. And I was like, ah, there you go. Now I’m gonna do a show about this. So, you know, okay, I got in trouble for [00:26:00] this because I was telling this to the wrong audience that just was whorephobic and, um.
Whore phobia. You know, when you open up a, a, a spacing that you are a whore. I don’t think people realize what happens to them unconsciously. Right. So I got in a little bit of trouble for talking about my experience in, uh, west Africa when I went. ’cause a few years ago I went to, I think I did Ghana, Senegal, and
Nats: Okay,
Akynos: Guinea.
Nats: Nice.
Akynos: Um, and I’m a world traveler and I’m also like a little American, ignorant American ass. So I go on these trips and I didn’t really do any research, and I’m like, how bad can it be? Like whatever. Um, so I went, okay, so we grew up in America, right? And in America they have these terrible imagery of Africa on the tv.
We’ve all grown up, seen as bullshit, right?
Nats: Complete utter bullshit. But in the, in the space.
Akynos: Complete bullshit. Complete. [00:27:00] You see the, we are the world growing up and they showing the starving kids, but in the circles I was in, for whatever reason, they were like, this is fucking bullshit. That is not what it looks like down there.
Right? So I’m like, I’m gonna expect Wakanda. Like seriously, this is my ignorant ass. Like as old as I am, sometimes I do shit. All I’m, yes. And I go and I’m. This is what the colonizers did to these countries? Like I was, I was appalled with the condition, with the way parts of the countries were, and I just, I couldn’t believe it.
I was just like, are you fu- This is what these fucking people like, you know, you hear about it, you hear what colonization did, but then you don’t, it doesn’t sink until you see it. And I’m like, oh my God. People don’t have light. You mean to tell me the light’s going out? You mean to tell me there isn’t any running water and I, I was born in Jamaica.
I’m not a a, I’m a naturalized American citizen, so I [00:28:00] understand this as well because when I went back to Jamaica, um, I started going back home maybe 10 years ago. I haven’t been back in 10 years. So like 10 years ago I was going pretty regularly. And when I was going I was also shocked. Like the place that I grew up in, I was like, how is this the exact same when I left 20 years ago?
Like you- there’s, this is not, this is unreal to me. Like this is in the neighborhood that I grew up in. So like still no regular running water. Still no light. Still a struggle. You know, like, and Jamaica’s not a third world country per se, because it’s, it’s one of the more developed countries in the Caribbean.
But I was so stunned. I was like, yo, what the hell is this? So like now, yeah, I’m processing this shit, you know? And I’m like, okay, I wanna do a show where I talk about what is happening in the global south. But then I did this show. Um, I think sometime last year or something where I spoke about it. ’cause I had a really bad experience, which is way too long to tell here with some people, with some other Americans who really were like pack mentality, like ganging up on me in the space that [00:29:00] we were in.
So anyway, I decided, you know, I’m telling this story about it, which was really about how far I’ve come from being this, um, this young person that grew up very poor. You know, I grew up, I grew up with fucking no lights. I grew up in where we had, we had to use kerosene lamp. And I moved to America during a crack, you know, uh, uh, epidemic.
So like, I understand poor, I grew up with roaches in the cereal. Like I, I grew up poor, you know, and
Nats: right there with you,
Akynos: Yeah, so like Brooklyn, I grew up in Brooklyn, was not cool to live in, you know what I mean? And like it was just a problem.
And so like I came from that to coming to a point where I was able to pull myself out of a really dangerous situation and that was really the story about, you know, about whatever. So anyway, I got in trouble ’cause people didn’t sit around to listen to the story. So I say all that to say, so instead of it just being about.
What is going on in the global south? I now, I’m having more conversation about America because I’m like, okay, this is true. Do you know it’s not just what’s [00:30:00] happening in Africa and what’s happening in the Caribbean. That is a problem. America also has a lot of these, these environmental problems. So the show is about the intersection of the environment and sex work because sex workers are involved in every aspect of the world, regardless of what people think.
Um, and you know, it’s gonna be about stories, about the environment and about just how sex work is intertwined into that and how the community really has the, um, the tools to combat the environmental racism and the environmental sexism and all of these issues that we’re having with our environment from, you know, different elements, water, the textile industry, um, fire, all of these different elements.
If people would just listen to us. So, I didn’t mean to turn you on. It’s about the intersections of the environment and sex work and is talking about just the different, um, environmental collapses that are happening globally in Africa, in the Caribbean, in the Americas, [00:31:00] and any place else that comes up.
’cause I’m still writing the show on the show airs- uh, premieres next week in Berlin next Friday, September 12th for tons knocked. Dance Night in, in Berlin.
Nats: Okay.
Akynos: So it’s a a 90 minute show that is a part exhibition and part like one woman show plus dance.
Nats: That’s fantastic.
Akynos: That was so long.
Nats: Do you, do you, no, that was wonderful.
Uh, do you have a way for us to participate that aren’t in Berlin, perhaps? Like is there a virtual component or do we just gotta wait until you like, release it on? I don’t know. How, how do, how do I, how can I see it?
Akynos: Actually, you know, I, the performances you’re probably gonna miss, but the exhibition part, I’m more likely gonna put it up on the website on a akynos.com.
Um, so folks will be able to like, uh, view pieces of that exhibition online. But the, the live performances, you probably have to be in person ’cause they’re not gonna, I imagine it’s not gonna stay the same. And I’m [00:32:00] only kind of discussing three elements in this show. And it, it’s a, it’s a show that can go on and on and on.
Nats: I love it. I will be looking on the website to get the little clips that I can, and you’re the only reason why I would like to come to Berlin. You are the only reason that I would like to come to Berlin. So, uh, one day maybe I’ll actually,
Akynos: well, we have a
space now. We have a space now. BSWC just had, oh yeah, that’s a nice segue.
So actually down the street from studios where the, uh, dance night is going to take place is our new space that we, I signed a lease on on Monday, so. For the people that come into Berlin, or if you live in Berlin or what, if you live in Germany or live wherever, it doesn’t matter if you’re coming into tell you wanna, you are like, where’s home?
The Berlin branch has a space. That is, uh, you know, community center slash cafe slash whatever we want it to be because it’s [00:33:00] run by hoes and it’s called the A Cafe, which is the, uh, Ghanaian way of saying sex worker.
Nats: I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. So, okay, so I go to Berlin.
I’m gonna hit up the shop, I’m going to drink some coffee, I’m gonna network, I’m gonna just be in community with everyone right there.
Akynos: Yeah.
Nats: Maybe pick up some merch. Uh, okay. So that’s even more of a reason.
Akynos: Yeah.
Nats: That’s, that’s even more of a reason.
Akynos: Yeah. You pick up merch, you even have food. I also have my, my Food project, the American.
So you, we, we probably be more than likely will always have food there. Anywhere I am, there’s gonna be food. So
Nats: I love that.
Akynos: There’s no way you’re gonna be, well, penis is having an event and there’s no food. There’s food. It will always be food where you see me. That’s
so, yeah, that’s for Berlin.
Nats: You feed people from the belly and the mind and honest, I would say the heart because I feel, I feel, I try you in my heart.
And like earlier you said, uh, people don’t take you seriously. I think you’re a very serious person. Like very serious. [00:34:00]
Akynos: That’s, that’s one of the very, no one ever says that to me. I think people just take me as a joke and I’m like, I literally do everything I say I’m gonna do. So like, I don’t know why people think this is a joke.
It’s like if I say, oh, let’s do it. I do it
Nats: Your word is bond like honestly, like, yeah. Uh, haters can hate all they want, but that’s because that they’re unaware and that’s okay. People will catch up, you know, people will catch up. That’s just what it. Seriously.
Akynos: Yeah.
Nats: Um, the BSW has a library?
Akynos: Yeah, we’ve got a, a library, uh, project that I’ve been trying to get off the ground for several years. I’ve applied for some grants, both in the US and Europe that have not been successful. Whatever, you just keep going. Um, but yeah, again, back to archiving. So the archiving thing has been something that I, that’s been on my mind for a while because especially black sex workers, we get wiped out of everything, you know, and then we don’t realize how, um, involved sex workers or black sex workers are.
Um, just in our, in our [00:35:00] communities overall, you know? Um. And I wanna make sure that you, you know, even if it’s 20 years down the line, people respect, respect sex workers, particularly black sex workers. Because there’s this world of knowledge that I hope to build online where it doesn’t matter how small the mention is of a black sex worker in the text or anything that people can find, they have a space that they can go. And just, just so we can see just how deeply embedded we are into just society, you know? Um, and to just try to find a way to preserve our, our sex worker culture and, and not have that wiped out by this fucking hoity-toity, self-righteous people who act like you know, people who are, who might have, you know, sex.
All encompassing, whatever that is to people. Like people that do this are not,
Nats: yeah.
Akynos: Somehow valuable or involved. So yeah, [00:36:00] so we have a, we have a library, which, AM Davies from YAS Work is working on the back end to develop like the structure. And I, we just received some grant from, I think archive it, um, to be able to store the, um, our archives, whatever that we have.
I, I can’t remember exactly ’cause I’m actually not the person handling it. Um, and yeah, I’m just gonna keep trying to build it and hopefully we get some more money and we can get a librarian and hire a librarian in the US hopefully. And, um. They can start archiving our stuff.
Nats: Okay. Well, uh, so wait a minute.
So if I wanted to make sure that. If I feel like I, I’ve contributed to some things, but I also feel like nobody really knows. So would I be able to upload my own information?
Akynos: Yeah.
Nats: Kind of like, well, these are the things that I’ve, I’ve done.
Akynos: Yeah.
Nats: Maybe you guys wanna know. That’s great.
Akynos: Not-, we definitely want it.
Whatever. Whatever you have done, if you were, I identify as a black sex worker. You for sure send, send [00:37:00] us the info and it somehow, I don’t know how we’re gonna do it. ’cause it’s a lot, it’s really a lot of work and it’s not something that we can, I don’t feel comfortable asking someone to do for free. I mean, but you know, we would like to compensate someone.
Um, but it’s gonna be a lot of work to put that stuff in there. So it’s organized in a way. But yeah, people, anyone, I think there’s a form you can go in, fill it out and then we’re able to like, put it up on the site. So we’ve gotta figure out a way that folks can like search. You know, the database and you know what they’re looking for.
So, but yeah, anyone, it’s, yeah, put it there.
Nats: It sounds
like a long term project. It sounds like something that it’s a long worthwhile, you know, so it’s gonna take some time, but that’s gonna be, uh, amazing to see come to life. Like it’s one of the things that’s neat. Yeah, for sure. I don’t think that exists right now.
So, you know, again, trendsetter
Akynos: trying,
Nats: I
mean, you’re not trying, you’re not trying, you’re doing it.
No, try.
Akynos: Thank you for [00:38:00] recognizing my efforts.
Nats: Um, game recognizes game and it’s real. The hu like, yeah, that part. Um, okay, so there’s something else. There’s something else that’s listed and I’m not sure exactly, but let’s just say, can we talk about public versus private conflict and which one you prefer to practice?
Akynos: Hmm. I prefer to just block people. I don’t have time. I’m fucking busy. People are so stupid. I just, I mean, I, when I, I think up, up until, I don’t know, when I kind of calm down from being more public about dragging people, but I, it just, you get, I guess you just get exhausted. Especially if there are people that come that like, look differently from you, nothing’s really gonna happen.
They might have a little minor inconvenience, but people are gonna still work with them. They’re gonna still ignore you. You’re labeled the bad guy and who the [00:39:00] hell has the time for that? So once upon a time, I was definitely about the public dragging, but now I’m more like, oh, you’re dumb block. You know, I don’t even wanna engage with you.
Um, so I guess I’m more engaged with the private situation now. I’m just like. I don’t, I’m not doing the labor of telling people anything because no, they’re not gonna, you’re not gonna listen to me anyway. You already, you know, I already think there’s a weird perception of me out there anyway, and maybe it’s my own…
Whatever, whatever I feel about myself, I can’t find the words right now. My, you know, I, maybe I have low self-esteem, I don’t know, but I just think like, uh, no one’s gonna listen, so I might as well, I’ll quietly block and if something comes up and someone asks me, I’ll tell them and they can do whatever they want with that information.
Nats: I, I, I so proud of it. I dig
that. I dig that because there has been times you have laid it out on social media before.
Akynos: Yeah, I’ll just tell you
Nats: it’s all like, it’s, it’s,
Akynos: oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You see that a lot.
Nats: [00:40:00] It’s very in your face. So to hear you say like, I don’t want anything to disrupt my own spirit and to see that, uh, I don’t wanna say evolution, let’s just say change within you.
Like that’s, I think that that’s dope.
Akynos: Well, I’m old, so
Nats: I mean
Akynos: old woman now, so I’m like, oh God.
Nats: Yeah. I don’t wanna age myself right on time.
Akynos: I have too much to do. I’m, I’m, I’m holding. I, I, we, you know, as you get older, like I’m holding the weight of too much. I can’t also hold that. So it’s like,
Nats: yeah,
Akynos: bye girl.
And if somebody asks me, I’ll tell them and they can believe me and do whatever they want and they don’t wanna do anything, then don’t. But you’ll be crying to me later
Nats: and hopefully
you’ll still be there. Open arms, like, you know. Come, you’re welcome.
Akynos: Nope,
Nope.
You fucked up. It’s over. Nope.
Nope. Nope.
Sorry. I told you bitch, I told you you didn’t. Listen what you want me to do? I got other things to do now I’ve [00:41:00] moved.
Nats: I hear you.
Akynos: I’m, yeah, I know. I’m, oh, I’m so sorry you experienced that. Like, okay, girl, I told you have a good one.
Nats: I’m, I’m quiet. Get it. I get it. Protection of peace is where it’s at.
Protection of peace is where it’s at. It’s like serious. Um, earlier, uh, this year I participated again with the Black Sex Worker Collective on a UN report, and we answered a bunch of questions in terms of like, uh, sex work. Uh, I think it was about trans people and sex work, uh, police brutality and how police approach us while we’re working as sex workers.
I wanted to know what was the feedback from the un? Like did they, they read the, they read it and they said what? Like, can you tell, tell us a little bit about that.
Akynos: You know, I don’t think that happened yet. I think that actually is happening like maybe in November. So the, the Universal Periodic Review is something that, you [00:42:00] know, um, these member states are up for review every so often. And th this year it was United States. We are still, just for the record people. Sure, the Ber- Berlin has a space, but also the US branch still exists. ’cause we still have people in the us we still have groups. We still have. Reps in the us we just don’t have a home base like right now, but we’re still there. Um, so like we actually don’t run that thing. It’s usually best practices policy project that takes on that and pretty much creates things with other advocates, activists and we all like, uh, put in our input.
Best Practices Policy Project typically, um, puts that stuff together and, and sends the stuff off, but I don’t think the responses have happened yet. I think there’s another layer to it that, if I’m not mistaken, there’s gonna be like a meeting in November.
Nats: Main thing is that the work is the, the information is getting out and it’s getting in front of people. And if they’re not receptive to it this time around, you know, hopefully Best [00:43:00] Policy Project, uh, your organization, uh, community members like myself, we can be around next time to force it down their throat again.
Like continuously letting people know that we are not going anywhere is where it’s at. And I feel like you exemplify that on a major level. I really appreciate you being here today. If there’s anything you wanna plug or shout out websites, all the good jazz, could you, could you share it for the people?
Akynos: What do I wanna plug? Oh my God. Um, well, you know, go to theBSWC.org um, find out what we’re up to there. I don’t always get a chance to do like. Updates like, I want to because I’m managing way too much. You know, and that’s just the reality of this, you know, in grassroots organizing, we’re not really getting salaries.
Um, and especially now with these funding cuts that’s happening, we’re, we’re even lucky to even still be standing. A lot of groups have closed, but we’re still there. Um, hanging on by a thread. [00:44:00] Um, and I, you know, just if you go to the website, you can sign up to the mailing list and when I do send it out, whenever I have the energy to, I’ll send it out.
And you’ll see all the things that we’re doing both on the European side as well as, you know, on the Africa side as well as in the, on the US side. Um, and um, yeah, there’s a lot of, uh, things that are coming up that are happening that uh, I can only put in the mailing list ’cause I cannot remember right now.
But we spoke about some of it here. Um, and I hope people are paying attention and. Yeah, I wish we had a little bit more time to chit chat ’cause it kind of keeps me from feeling the, the discomfort I’ve been feeling in terms of being sick. Like, as I’m engaging with people, I actually, I, I guess my, I adrenaline is going so I can’t really feel what’s happening to my body.
But once we stop talking, it comes back and then I gotta figure out what I’m gonna do. Yeah. So anyway, you know, folks could just keep donating, keep sharing. I just wish people would interact more with [00:45:00] stuff, but I don’t know if it’s because the algorithms or whatever, but stay in touch. Because one of the things, the main things that we have to try to start implementing almost immediately is going back to the basics of how we communicate with people.
So it’s like time to get those addresses again, because, you know, we think the Internet’s gonna be here forever. Yeah. And at any given moment, they can take it from us. And we have to be prepared for that. So one of the next things that we have to start doing is like having physical addresses to be able to send people things out in physical form again, you know, so donate a little bit of money here and there.
Interact with things that’s like more important. And, you know, I, you know, last thing I wanna say before we clock off is that it’s really great to give sex workers your money, but it’s, it’s kind of pointless. If you’re giving us your money and you’re also not engaging with the stuff that we are doing.
It’s all, it’s, it’s equally important, you know, to listen to us and engage with the stuff that we are doing on a real level. Like, you know, something that’s really tangible, show up and [00:46:00] stand in solidarity
Nats: and usually we’re ahead of
the curve
Akynos: or you just regret it later.
Nats: Usually we’re ahead of the curve.
Akynos: Always. You’re gonna regret it if you don’t do it.
Nats: They always do because you, and usually it, whatever is happening to us that’s bad eventually happens to everyone else. So
Akynos: Yeah, all the time.
Nats: when we
sounding the alarm.
Akynos: Yeah,
nobody listens.
Nats: Pay the fuck attention.
Akynos: They should pay attention, pay attention.
Nats: They will.
Akynos: But you can only pay attention, pay attention. Connect in the room does
Nats: connect.
Akynos: Yeah, you gotta connect. You can’t just throw us money and be like, okay. ’cause it’s almost kind of insulting. Say, oh, here’s 25 bucks. Let them go do that thing, then you’re not paying attention. And then, you know, then people can co-opt our entire movement and you’ll send them millions of dollars, but you’re not giving us anything.
And then these spaces close and anyway, the cycle is just gonna keep repeating. So we all have a choice to make.
Nats: There we go.
We’re gonna leave it right there. We all have a choice to make, and I hope everyone makes the choice to connect with you. Listen to what you’re saying. [00:47:00] Support sex work. And I think I need to even need to bleep that out right now, you know?
But the Black Sex Worker Collective is where it’s at. Engage, connect, donate, follow along. Sex work is work.
Akynos: Yeah.
Thank you so much. Bye.
Thank you. We shall see each other soon.