The pole world is finally being forced to face the truth: if you want a stronger future for pole, you have to center sex workers, not sideline them. NatsHoney and AMD break down what they saw at Pole Con East, where representation, history, and accountability were on full display.What starts as a recap of an electric event turns into a bigger conversation about who gets celebrated in pole spaces, who gets left out, and what it actually means to build a more honest industry. From disability and Latinx showcases to sex workers showing up everywhere, this episode keeps circling one question – who is pole really for?
*This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* *This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* Begin transcript after opening credits.
NatsHoney (00:00)
even right here in this conversation, we’re moving the goal pulse. We’re saying, hey
NatsHoney (00:05)
What about poll history? Are you making sure to incorporate that into sex? Like we’re we’re going to continue to ask for more. I
AMD (00:11)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (00:12)
don’t think that there’s any way of getting around that.
AMD (00:29)
Hey everyone, I’m AM Davies, and I’m one of the hosts today of Yes Podcast. But before we get into all that, thanks for being here with us. As always, we wanted to remind you that Yes Podcast is produced by YesWork, a nonprofit organization dedicated to changing public perception through media. If you love our podcast, which I know you do, please consider donating because donations like yours help keep this project going.
AMD (00:59)
Head to yasswork.org forward slash donate. So, yes, as I mentioned, I’m one of your hosts today. I’m AM Davies.
NatsHoney (01:08)
And I am your other host, Nats Honey.
AMD (01:10)
Yaz, thanks so much for hanging with me today, Nats. How are you doing? Always.
NatsHoney (01:14)
Thanks for inviting me. I’m looking forward to this conversation.
AMD (01:17)
Yeah. How are you doing?
NatsHoney (01:20)
I I would be a lot better if I had something that I was able to blaze upon.
AMD (01:26)
Why you’re not what’s up what’s up? What do you mean if you had something? You always have something.
NatsHoney (01:29)
Inside the ho
NatsHoney (01:30)
I’m inside the house, so you know, I usually Yeah,
AMD (01:33)
you don’t smoke in the house?
NatsHoney (01:34)
we we stopped smoking in the house once the once Dominic came around.
AMD (01:40)
Wow, that is very admirable. I can’t imagine not smoking my out
NatsHoney (01:46)
Wasn’t my choice. Was not my choice.
NatsHoney (01:51)
But it’s it’s all good.
AMD (01:52)
We
AMD (01:53)
we do have designated smoking areas in the h like you’re not allowed to smoke with outside of those areas, you know, but wow.
NatsHoney (01:58)
Yeah, see, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like
NatsHoney (02:00)
and I if I have my pin, I’d be joining you ’cause, you know, pin anywhere in the house. So yeah.
AMD (02:05)
Okay.
AMD (02:07)
Well I’ll keep it to a limit so I don’t you know, so you don’t get jealous or anything. Of course.
NatsHoney (02:11)
And I support you fully, fully. Yes, yes, yes.
AMD (02:16)
we’re talking about poll con today. That thing that we went to in May. Very specific, thank you. Yes. Yeah.
NatsHoney (02:21)
Polcon East to be specific, correct? Yeah. And this was
NatsHoney (02:28)
my first time going in a very, very long time.
AMD (02:31)
Same. It was also a very long time for me. I want to say the last time I was there, as someone so poignantly pointed out in front of my partner, directly to my partner, as if to tell my partner, I’ve seen your partner’s tits before. The last time I was at Polcon was in like 2015 when I got topless on stage. So it would have been like 11 years ago. My god, I cannot believe time happened.
AMD (02:59)
But yeah, I forgot how long it had been. We ran into another person before the whole event got started. And he was like, The last time I saw AM and like told my partner this story. The last time I saw AM, she he called me she. She was on stage, like tits out. And I’m like, This is the first time you’re meeting my partner. Why do men do that? Why do men have to say? And then in my in my partner’s head, he’s like,
AMD (03:29)
Yeah, you and like millions of other people have seen her their tits. Like what? But that’s
NatsHoney (03:34)
Yeah.
AMD (03:36)
the point. Like why did he why did he have to do that? Can you do you know those things?
NatsHoney (03:39)
It could have like I saw your performance
NatsHoney (03:41)
and it was very memorable. It didn’t Yeah,
AMD (03:43)
Right.
NatsHoney (03:44)
yeah.
AMD (03:45)
But why did we have to talk about my tits? Anyways, that’s how long ago I was there. Eleven years ago with my tits out.
NatsHoney (03:51)
It’s a long time. And I wasn’t there for
NatsHoney (03:53)
that performance, so it’s been even longer for me.
AMD (03:57)
Yeah, and it was like it was really interesting ’cause there was new people there and there were people that like we hadn’t seen in years that we knew, like decades ago because we’ve been doing this shit for that long now, right? Bro,
NatsHoney (04:10)
Yeah. Yeah.
AMD (04:12)
you and I have been friends for twenty years. Literally this year.
AMD (04:18)
Maybe even last year. Maybe even last year.
NatsHoney (04:18)
That’s right. Yeah,
NatsHoney (04:21)
I think it was I think it might have been last year, but like dead set on like you’re not getting rid of me. You’re not getting rid of me, AM
AMD (04:27)
That’s a long I’m not
AMD (04:29)
saying it’s a long ass time. I love it.
NatsHoney (04:33)
Very I’m
NatsHoney (04:33)
I’m thankful. I am thankful. I am thankful. Yeah.
AMD (04:35)
Yeah, I think it’s great. I love it.
AMD (04:39)
yeah, so we saw we saw people we knew, people we didn’t know. and I don’t know. I would say overall I had a genuinely really good time and I was very happy that we went.
NatsHoney (04:53)
was very happy that I attended. It elevated my spirits and it was wonderful to see the culture of pole with so many black people being represented. It was fantastic. I w I
AMD (05:05)
Yeah. Yeah.
NatsHoney (05:06)
was really I was happy.
AMD (05:09)
Definitely. Yeah,
AMD (05:11)
you just mentioned what I wanna talk about, which is the diverse and black representation at PolCon.
NatsHoney (05:18)
Great.
AMD (05:18)
Can you expand on that for our audience?
NatsHoney (05:22)
It me expand on it? Sure. Sure. as
AMD (05:25)
Yeah. Yeah.
NatsHoney (05:27)
most people know, when pole fitness first initially developed,
NatsHoney (05:32)
Even back then I was just like, white people doing white people shit ain’t for me. So
AMD (05:36)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (05:37)
it was a lot of that in the initial beginning and going to Polcon East, it was refreshing to see that the convention was still happening and it seemed like to me that the reason why it was still happening was because black people were keeping it alive. And I don’t wanna just
AMD (05:54)
Mm-hmm.
NatsHoney (05:54)
say black people, I’ll just say people of color. The
NatsHoney (05:58)
The global majority. The global majority was keeping it alive and that was just from the showcases to the sponsorships to the performances, e everything, the host, like hands down, it was extremely entertaining. It w happy to be here, it felt inclusive. It didn’t feel like you were I was like like I wasn’t invited in, whereas previously it’s definitely felt like, you know, it was like
NatsHoney (06:28)
What do they used to call like the what’s the what’s the white was the white man when they control stuff? The good white boys club, the good old you know what it’s called? Something like that. Yeah. And it’s like, you know, you can’t there’s a list and then it’s like just a bunch of stuff. But it didn’t feel like that. You know, and and
AMD (06:36)
The good old boys, the G O P, Patriots, Nazis Yeah. Yeah.
NatsHoney (06:49)
props to I believe the owner’s name is Colleen or Ca Colleen Yes. props to
AMD (06:54)
Yeah. Colleen Jolly is
AMD (06:56)
the director, yeah.
NatsHoney (06:57)
Yeah,
NatsHoney (06:57)
props to them for making that happen. ’cause I’m pretty sure, yeah, you know, you have to be welcoming
AMD (07:03)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (07:04)
and and like kinda like let’s let’s bring that on in in order for that to exist. And it was beautiful
AMD (07:08)
Totally.
NatsHoney (07:08)
to see. It was beautiful.
AMD (07:10)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (07:11)
all the beautiful black beauty on display. And the Latin.
AMD (07:14)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (07:15)
Like I don’t wanna leave people out ’cause it was fantastic across the board. So, you know.
AMD (07:20)
It
AMD (07:21)
really like they there was like a group for everything, right? So I was
NatsHoney (07:25)
Yes.
AMD (07:25)
in the disabled group, which I they call parapol, right? And then there was the the the Latina, the Latinx showcase that you were mentioning and Yeah, it
NatsHoney (07:37)
Mm-hmm. Which was fucking rad. That was so rad.
AMD (07:42)
it really was. Yeah. And
NatsHoney (07:45)
Yeah.
AMD (07:45)
So there was like it was just like every everyone got their their time to shine is how it felt. And everyone got their their opportunity to represent. And that’s
NatsHoney (07:55)
Yeah.
AMD (07:56)
what I felt was like really, really great about the whole event, which I’ve always kind of felt that way about that event, to be real, ’cause I I went to it several times, many times in the last, you know, obviously eleven years and before. But I think what the difference was for this event for me was
AMD (08:13)
Like there were sex workers everywhere, like in every corner of this event. And like I that was a big reason I stopped going, because I didn’t feel like I was connected enough with sex workers and that there weren’t enough representation. And it’s a big reason why I like kind of pulled back from the pole community for a few years in general, because I was just getting really frustrated with that.
NatsHoney (08:37)
Yeah.
AMD (08:37)
And
AMD (08:37)
then, you know, I think I was I think that was why I was kind of nervous to go back ’cause I wasn’t sure like how it was gonna be different, you know, and I went back as like a like I went back for yeswork. I went back for us to raise awareness about what we’re doing because I knew I was gonna know people there. And then I was like, Holy shit, like the sex workers are everywhere here.
NatsHoney (09:02)
I feel like that’s always been the case, but I I feel like when the industry first came around, when the when the industry became an industry as opposed to a community, I feel like there was like a push to highlight pole dancers and kinda have like this is what you do after you’re done dancing. It was never like a welcoming thing like you get well, except if we include badass. For badass I feel like the two always kinda stayed married next to each other for the most part.
AMD (09:30)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (09:32)
And you know, but other than that, yes, yes, specifically, yes. I
AMD (09:35)
Josiah Badass Grant is who you’re talking about. Just to let the audience know who you’re talking about. Yeah.
NatsHoney (09:41)
refer to Josiah as Sir Josiah Badass Grant, just so we’re making just be clear. Put some respect on that man’s name for sure.
AMD (09:45)
I see. I will correct myself. Thank you for that. Absolutely.
NatsHoney (09:51)
Yeah, but then it was just very much like, you know, that’s what you do after.
NatsHoney (09:57)
It’s not necessarily what happens in the same time that you’re doing poll. Like it seemed like it was a it was aimed to be separate. And I think in this day and age, one, you can’t can’t tell a stripper what to do. Even back then. That’s why you left. I got uncomfortable. There was you know what I mean? Like that’s why certain things happen because you can’t you can’t tell the stripper what to do. You can’t. You just you you can’t.
AMD (10:19)
Yeah, I would say that that was one of my like one of the things that like with my small grievance about the event itself is there’s so many rules. Like I just h hate rules so much. And there’s so many rules. You know,
NatsHoney (10:35)
Yeah. Yeah.
AMD (10:39)
and but listen, I get it though, of course, which is why I didn’t complain
NatsHoney (10:44)
yes, pole fitness has always been about framework,
AMD (10:48)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (10:48)
you know, and regulations. So
AMD (10:51)
Yeah,
AMD (10:51)
yeah, but especially in an event like that, like who of course there’s rules, you know, like it’s a big event. There’s a lot of things to manage, you know? And
NatsHoney (11:00)
Yeah. Yeah.
AMD (11:02)
like of course logic from a logic standpoint I get it, but for the anarchists inside of me, the disruptor, the artist, the the freelance stripper, I’m like, what’s all these rules?
NatsHoney (11:12)
Yeah.
AMD (11:17)
But it’s fine. No, but I had I
NatsHoney (11:19)
Yeah, it’s good.
AMD (11:20)
had a great time and we had a chance to like talk to people and we talked about sex work and pole dancing and how things could improve. What are some issues? What are some things that people have seen that feel like is better? and so yeah, we did one, two, three, four, five, six interviews.
NatsHoney (11:46)
Nice. Okay. I
AMD (11:46)
While we were there between you and I. Yeah.
NatsHoney (11:49)
think that wa we hit the goal. That was I believe that was the goal.
AMD (11:52)
That was the minimum. and it was honestly it was a great minimum because that event was a lot of work. We were busy.
NatsHoney (12:02)
Yeah. Yeah.
AMD (12:04)
I was very busy.
NatsHoney (12:06)
Yeah. They especially with the performance and yeah, looking around the equipment, going back and forth yeah, it was a lot. It was worth it. It was worth it. It was worth it.
AMD (12:13)
The performance. I know. The performance. I
AMD (12:18)
just want to say about the performance, to our audience thought it was dedicated to you, It’s it w
NatsHoney (12:24)
It made me cry.
AMD (12:25)
it was dedicated to Nats, honey, specifically, but in general, the entire theme of the the set was all the sex workers in mind the whole time. Like all I had was y’all in mind. ‘Cause I was like, if I’m going to poll con
AMD (12:40)
Like everyone’s gonna know that I’m a sex worker and like that’s the team I’m on. And like and I I almost did this one this one performance and I completely changed everything ’cause I realized my first choice was like kind of all about me. And I was like, No, no, no. I had to reel myself back in.
AMD (13:04)
And I I did it for all sex workers and you being my longest sex worker friend and my longest closest friend and my one of my biggest inspirations, that is why the performance was dedicated to you.
NatsHoney (13:20)
Yeah, I totally like they said that and I totally
AMD (13:22)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (13:23)
just I totally broke down. I was happy I was able to
AMD (13:25)
Well, yeah.
NatsHoney (13:25)
still make able to make the money throw and and do it on cue. So
AMD (13:28)
my god,
AMD (13:29)
and your money throwing out of this world. It was so perfect. Like It’s my favorite every time Nats just ran by money. It’s
NatsHoney (13:39)
Yeah.
AMD (13:41)
so cute. So if you haven’t seen my performance, go to my Instagram and you can see me performing and Nats Honey making it rain on me at AM Davies underscore. You might have to type my entire handle in.
NatsHoney (13:52)
Yeah, check it out you guys.
AMD (13:54)
In order to find me.
NatsHoney (13:54)
It’s it y
NatsHoney (13:55)
ple please do that ’cause it’s that video is awesome. That performance is great.
AMD (13:57)
Simon SLAT. Yeah, but go look
AMD (14:00)
at that. Okay, are we ready? So here’s for our audience to understand. We’re gonna play each of these clips of interviews that we did at Pole Convention East. And in some of them, Nats is the interviewer, and some of them I am the interviewer. So Nats hasn’t heard some of the stuff I talked about with someone else until now, and vice versa.
AMD (14:24)
so we’re going to play each interview and then kind of have a little reaction after each one. So we’re ready to get started.
NatsHoney (14:32)
I’m excited.
AMD (14:33)
Sick. Me too.
VIDEO OF AGATHA INTERVIEW, TRANSCRIPT NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME
AMD (17:05)
are really difficult, you said.
NatsHoney (17:05)
Ha ha ha
AMD (17:14)
I just caught that. I don’t remember you saying that.
NatsHoney (17:17)
All I heard was I told you. I don’t
NatsHoney (17:18)
even know what I said. All I heard was I told you. I love it. I love it. I love it.
AMD (17:21)
I told you some of them are really difficult. Hilarious. Well,
AMD (17:30)
yeah, I think also because you know, th they get a little nervous, the pole dancers, you know.
NatsHoney (17:35)
Yeah. Yeah.
AMD (17:37)
I get it. I get why they get nervous. And ’cause they and I think that if they’re not noti nervous, to me, it’s like you’re not trying. You know, I feel like if you’re kind of
AMD (17:51)
expressing a little hesitation or or care cautiousness. I’ve I’ve I see that as a signal of like you’re really trying to do better. I don’t know.
NatsHoney (18:00)
Mm. You’re thinking before you’re speaking.
AMD (18:03)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I I respect that, that you’re being thoughtful. It’s also
NatsHoney (18:11)
Yeah.
AMD (18:11)
I interpret it also as being thoughtful, you know. So yeah.
NatsHoney (18:15)
And Agatha tore
NatsHoney (18:16)
it up on stage. That was a fantastic performance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The music was
AMD (18:18)
Yes, she did. She was so awesome on stage. Yes.
NatsHoney (18:23)
great. I’m not sure if it was kneecap or if it was another band, but it was it was a perfect song. It was fantastic. Yeah.
AMD (18:28)
Yeah, I
AMD (18:29)
don’t know. And Agatha also dressed me. I was wearing Sway on
NatsHoney (18:33)
Mm-hmm.
AMD (18:34)
stage for my costume. And they also gave us giveaways that we can use for Giving Tuesday later this year from Sway. So I know, cute, right? Totally. Yeah. So anything else?
NatsHoney (18:43)
fantastic. that’s great. That’s great. I mean, we that’s what we need.
AMD (18:50)
Yeah. Anything else that you wanna say about Agatha or
NatsHoney (18:56)
No. She was awesome. She was amazing and I hope that
AMD (18:59)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (19:00)
I hope that we can run into each other again. You know, I plan on coming back, so and I hope that
AMD (19:04)
Rad.
NatsHoney (19:05)
everyone that I saw there is there again, including Agatha. Is is it Agatha
AMD (19:09)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (19:10)
is it you’re saying it different than me. I’m saying thu, but you’re saying okay.
AMD (19:12)
I I think I think it’s both. I
AMD (19:15)
think that the I think the proper pronunciation is Agatha.
NatsHoney (19:19)
Okay.
AMD (19:21)
but I think that, you know, America. Anyway. Yeah. All right.
NatsHoney (19:24)
Yeah, yeah Yeah yeah yeah yeah tomato tomato Yeah.
AMD (19:32)
Here’s our next interview that we did with it’s you again with Nicole the Pole.
VIDEO OF NICOLE INTERVIEW, TRANSCRIPT NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME
AMD (23:18)
great. That was great.
NatsHoney (23:21)
wow, I might be tearing up a little bit. Yeah.
NatsHoney (23:27)
It was really that was beautiful for me to have the chance to do that with Nicole all these years later. Like for me, and this goes back to like the black representation if I’m being completely honest,
NatsHoney (23:44)
at the this is YouTube days. This is YouTube days, all right? And I don’t know how. I think maybe Nicole hit me up. I’m not too sure, but I went over to her house where she was staying at the time and she had her poll up and she was doing her little things and doing her stuff. And I’m like, yeah, all that’s cool, but you need a trick. Like you need something. You need you need something wow. And I literally said, I’m going to give you
NatsHoney (24:11)
One of my tricks. I’m gonna give you my trick. And the mission is for you to go in and fucking dominate this industry. Like they don’t have, like, I’m not gonna do it. I’m not gonna go and do that right now. I got a collective I’m trying to take care of. I got artists that I’m trying to mentor. That that’s not my
AMD (24:28)
Okay.
NatsHoney (24:29)
lane. But I would love it if you can go and dominate as a black woman in this industry
AMD (24:34)
Mm-hmm.
NatsHoney (24:36)
as it’s starting to come up. And I taught Nicole how to stand on the ceiling.
AMD (24:41)
Mm-hmm.
NatsHoney (24:41)
It was
NatsHoney (24:42)
very long time ago. And I believe that was like one of the the tricks that really kind of solidified Nicole as like having a signature trick and elevating her like to the place where it’s just like, you know, like it unli I think it unleashed more creativity as she approached pole fitness and turning it into
AMD (25:01)
Mm-hmm.
NatsHoney (25:01)
pole dance. And all of these years, sh Nicole has always like she’s always given respect and props to me.
AMD (25:11)
Mm-hmm.
NatsHoney (25:11)
no matter
NatsHoney (25:12)
the differences that we’ve had or the different side of the fields that we’re on. And
AMD (25:15)
Sure.
NatsHoney (25:15)
that’s something that I truly I truly do appreciate and respect because I I feel like
AMD (25:20)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (25:20)
that kind of respect is what’s needed. You know, that mutual spre respect honestly from for me to be able to see someone and be like, Hey, I see you got the goods and I think I have a piece that can that can help to elevate you that much more. I’d love to share with you
AMD (25:35)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (25:36)
what I have and you take it from there.
NatsHoney (25:38)
without it being like, you know, a tit for tat or anything like that. That was,
AMD (25:42)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (25:43)
Yeah it was beautiful to see. Yeah. And I I gave her a bunch of shit too about this retirement thing she kept doing. I’m like, How the fuck can you retire? But I understand now. I understand
AMD (25:53)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (25:53)
what that retirement means. So I’m like, okay, I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it.
AMD (25:56)
Yeah. Yeah.
NatsHoney (25:58)
Yeah.
AMD (25:59)
Yeah, that was awesome. It was so great to see Nicole. Yeah, ’cause I, you know, we both she lived in LA when I lived in LA. I I would see her at auditions all the time and like like w remember we got like we all got hired for some like big reality show thing.
AMD (26:18)
And there was like it was like multi levels and there was this like big huge stage. I don’t know. Remember them people were always trying to I don’t but always back
NatsHoney (26:25)
I know I know which I know w I know which one you’re talking about. I never did none of those things, but I know which one you’re talking about. I know which one.
AMD (26:31)
then, all these people always tried to hire us to do those types of shows and it like never went through and we would all just like hang out and like and it was just a group of us, like a diverse group of us and Nicole was one of those people that was always at those things too.
AMD (26:49)
Yeah, so I feel like I’ve known her for ages also. So it was really great seeing her. Yeah.
NatsHoney (26:52)
Yeah. Yeah, props to Nicole
NatsHoney (26:54)
for hustling the shit out of this. Like seriously. Like mad love. Mad love. Yeah. Yeah, she put a lot of people
AMD (26:58)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
NatsHoney (27:02)
on.
AMD (27:03)
Yeah, I mean, yeah, she and I and I’m I don’t know if we need to just inform the audience, she’s most famously known for being the pole dancer in the poured up video for Rihanna. So in case you don’t know, now you know. You didn’t know that?
NatsHoney (27:18)
I don’t think I knew that.
NatsHoney (27:20)
I don’t I don’t pay attention to everybody’s resume you know, like I’m very active and like, you know, trying to get it going
AMD (27:25)
yeah.
NatsHoney (27:26)
and then after that I’m like, Yeah, go go go forth.
AMD (27:28)
You
AMD (27:28)
were dedicated at the time to your your collectives, and it was around that time probably, and it was like the hot shit, like everyone was talking about it. So yeah.
AMD (28:06)
Next up is Mica.
VIDEO OF MICA INTERVIEW, TRANSCRIPT NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME
AMD (30:46)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (30:48)
That was awesome.
NatsHoney (30:49)
I love how, like before we did the interview, I believe I got the full breakdown on how the business came to be and the inspiration behind it. So I was very I was really into it because,
AMD (31:03)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (31:04)
you know, I I do think and I’ve and this is one of the reasons why I was so drawn to pole dance as a form of fitness when it first popped up.
NatsHoney (31:13)
‘Cause I do feel like anybody can do it for as long as possible if you want to stay active and to know that there was an individual that was really like that was inspired and kinda like catered their branding and their marketing behind their grandmother and their grandmother wasn’t
AMD (31:27)
Mm.
NatsHoney (31:28)
here anymore. Like I just know the power of ancestors and that was just really, really
AMD (31:33)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (31:33)
beautiful. That was really beautiful. And the tides and the offerings.
AMD (31:38)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (31:40)
You know, yeah.
AMD (31:41)
Yeah, and
AMD (31:43)
I also appreciate everyone’s candid answer about whether or not they learned about pole history in the studios. And like really kind of across the board, the answer is no. Right? Yeah. And so what I find interesting about that is I know that some studios are teaching it. So now I’m like I almost wouldn’t assume that no studio is teaching it until I hear until I hear differently. So
NatsHoney (32:08)
I think
NatsHoney (32:08)
that would be a safe assumption.
AMD (32:10)
Right. And but now I’m like, but wait, what studios are doing that? ‘Cause I hear that that’s happening, but like what
NatsHoney (32:18)
And if that
NatsHoney (32:19)
is happening, what are they teaching?
AMD (32:22)
Right. Good point. Good point.
NatsHoney (32:23)
You know? ‘Cause I ’cause I don’t I don’t
NatsHoney (32:25)
I don’t I don’t think that I don’t wanna toot my own horn, but I feel like
AMD (32:28)
Okay. Yeah.
AMD (32:32)
Why not?
NatsHoney (32:32)
I n I know I I know I I thoroughly know the history and I feel like if you can’t go
AMD (32:38)
Hundred percent.
NatsHoney (32:38)
if you can’t go as far back as nineteen ninety eight to record like the events that unfolded as this community became an industry, if you can’t go back to Fanya putting out an ad out here in the local dance paper that we had here in Los Angeles, if you can’t go back all the way to Bobby and
NatsHoney (33:01)
Miss Bobbi visiting New York and going to p I think that
AMD (33:04)
Yeah, yeah.
NatsHoney (33:05)
lady’s name was Wendy. If you can’t trace it all the way back to those
AMD (33:10)
USPDF, my God.
NatsHoney (33:12)
But
NatsHoney (33:12)
that was even before like I think that was like before USPDF popped off. Like I think that that was like like the next year I think they started having that competition. But before that
AMD (33:20)
They had
AMD (33:21)
it in two thousand and nine was the first year.
NatsHoney (33:24)
Bobbi was out there. I wanna say Bobbi was out there earlier than that.
AMD (33:27)
Bobbi was doing everything before everybody. She was teaching
NatsHoney (33:29)
Yeah, Bobbi was doing
AMD (33:31)
Yeah. Nah. I got the real I have
NatsHoney (33:33)
I still have my Bobbi bags.
AMD (33:35)
way too much content that I’m sitting on that needs to be done with. But like I can’t
NatsHoney (33:38)
Yes, you do.
AMD (33:39)
we can’t even go down that rabbit hole. That’ll take forever, bro. Yeah. But yeah
NatsHoney (33:42)
But any as we were saying. Yeah. I do think that it might
NatsHoney (33:45)
be something to have at the poll convention though. That could be a a workshop or a class for next year, like, you know, the origins of of pole history as taught by people that were there.
AMD (33:52)
Perhaps.
AMD (33:56)
Perhaps. Yeah, I mean, I’m working on something low key, but I’ll just leave it at that. Leave it at that for now. Cause for I’ll tell you later when we’re not recording, I’ll tell you more, but I don’t want to work. Lots of people are listening. Yeah.
NatsHoney (34:01)
Okay. Okay. Helped. I knew something was brewing when the finger was a movin’.
AMD (34:12)
So this is a good time to bring up Bee’s Knees, bring up The Bar, and The Community Shop, right? And so these are three different things. The reason it all ties in, trust me, trust me, it all ties in. So when we went to visit the Bee’s Knees table, which we’ll talk about why we visited the table in a second, they were sharing it with The Bar,, which is studio that Sarah from Bee’s Knees goes to.
AMD (34:34)
Right. And so they work together. They work together. Yeah.
NatsHoney (34:34)
Okay, got it. Okay, okay, okay.
AMD (34:37)
And so at The Bar, there was an instructor of The Bar at the table and her name is Veronica. And Veronica is an open stripper. so I can say this. and they they were telling me that they’re trying to have 50% or more of strippers as instructors at this studio. And
AMD (35:04)
That they, because they are strippers, they are able to tell the history from a sex worker’s perspective, as opposed to a studio filled just with pole dancers getting the same playbook from that shit that’s been copied and pasted on websites. That’s fucking wrong. It’s got wrong information in it. Granted, a lot of some of it’s right, but there’s a lot of it that’s wrong. And so, yeah, so we I know, we know you and I had this conversation. I don’t know if you were there or not.
AMD (35:34)
with me when we had no you weren’t there with me. But I was like up in their face because it was so loud. And they were telling
NatsHoney (35:40)
Mm-hmm.
AMD (35:40)
me, like there’s more right now, there’s more than one stripper instructor there and they’re teaching sex worker history. And so that kind of is like how it needs to be like pole dance studios should have strippers as staff, as hired staff. Right.
NatsHoney (35:57)
I don’t understand how that’s not already like a thing.
AMD (36:04)
Well, I don’t think it’s like really prioritized, right? Also, it’s like ’cause like what they’re doing at The Bar, is like they are making sure of it, you know, to be inclusive, as opposed to just being like whoever comes and knocks on our door kind of thing. You know, like they’re actively seeking out that talent to be at their studio to to be able to pay sex workers.
NatsHoney (36:34)
I think it’s dope. Yeah, it’s
AMD (36:34)
So I know it happens, but who else who else?
AMD (36:36)
Who else? If anyone’s listening, tell us who what other studios are doing any of the things that we just talked about. Hiring strippers, teaching about sex work, like in the history of pole dancing, like who would tell us, please write in and tell us because I don’t know.
NatsHoney (36:49)
And and not just hiring
NatsHoney (36:50)
not just hiring strippers or sex workers, but the it I I really enjoyed that fifty percent mention. Like
AMD (36:58)
Mm.
NatsHoney (36:58)
that’s making sure that they’re in the building. It’s not just one or two,
AMD (37:01)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (37:01)
unless there’s only four people there. But you know what I mean? Like that that that that’s that’s
AMD (37:04)
Right. It depends on how big the studio is. Right. Yeah.
NatsHoney (37:07)
a that’s a that’s a good margin to try to hit.
AMD (37:10)
Yeah. I agree. So I know it’s happening. I just don’t know who’s doing it. Right. And because it seems like it’s not it’s just happening on a small scale.
AMD (37:22)
Let’s move on to the next video. You ready? This
NatsHoney (37:25)
Mm-hmm. Who is the next one?
AMD (37:26)
this one is me interviewing with award winning pole dancer and ex-stripper Shaina Cruea. Here
NatsHoney (37:35)
Ooh, okay.
AMD (37:37)
we go.
VIDEO OF SHAINA INTERVIEW, TRANSCRIPT NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME
NatsHoney (41:44)
That
NatsHoney (41:45)
was that was awesome. I didn’t realize that expert included that little tidbit in terms of like pole dancing and sex workers inside of their training. That’s that’s that’s a that’s a
AMD (41:56)
Yeah, yes. I
NatsHoney (41:59)
step up. I appreciate that, Expole. I appreciate that.
AMD (42:01)
Yes.
AMD (42:02)
Yeah. So I actually took an expert program. I think I covered it. I think I made like a video because I used to do that, right? I used to like document what pole dancing, how pole dancing was growing. I
NatsHoney (42:15)
That was San Diego, right?
AMD (42:17)
that was in San Diego. Yes. What an incredible memory. Yes. and so when I took it, they didn’t have that in there.
NatsHoney (42:25)
Yeah.
AMD (42:26)
Okay. And so this would have been around two thousand thirteen or fourteen, right? That I was taking that. and then yeah. So they have this whole section now. And apparently and I know what it’s like. You know, you sit there and you they come up to a section and then you dissect a section, then you’re just sitting there talking about it. And so I I’m that’s why I was asking, like, is that what it’s like? And
AMD (42:52)
That is what it’s like. They sit there and they they talk about it and dissect it and they have people who are able to share lived experiences, which I think is obviously the best part because as Sydney said in an upcoming episode that comes out next month, is that, you know, get it from the source, you know?
NatsHoney (43:10)
Yeah.
AMD (43:11)
And to also like quote Samantha Sun from East London Collective, who we interviewed last year, like, don’t be a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy.
AMD (43:21)
Like, you know, get it from the source.
NatsHoney (43:25)
Yeah.
AMD (43:27)
So I think that’s really important. And and Shayna has experience, lived experience, and and other people who are writing expert. And so it wasn’t just it’s not performative. It’s not performative.
NatsHoney (43:43)
And a lot can be said for that. The fact that it’s not performative and actually based in those that have experience and they’re trying to charter that path. Yeah. Respect. Lots of respect.
AMD (43:49)
Right. Right. Yeah. I mean yeah, and
AMD (43:54)
also like I watched Expole change from now we’re not doing things with strippers to what they’re doing now. And it’s a huge difference, you know.
NatsHoney (44:08)
Yes.
AMD (44:09)
I watch them from the inside
NatsHoney (44:11)
Yeah.
AMD (44:11)
do that. Yeah, that’s all I’ll say about that.
NatsHoney (44:15)
Yeah, that’s all we’ll say about that.
AMD (44:17)
Thank you, Shaina.
AMD (44:19)
Amazing. next we have you are interviewing and we caught
AMD (44:25)
up with Jinx. You remember Jinx? You loved that convo. This is a longer one. You ready?
NatsHoney (44:34)
I can still see the performance. Let that r recording play. Let’s do that.
AMD (44:37)
Okay. All
AMD (44:39)
right, here we go.
VIDEO OF JINX INTERVIEW, TRANSCRIPT NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME
NatsHoney (52:54)
Well I’m crying all over again. I’m crying all over again.
AMD (52:54)
You alright? Yeah.
AMD (53:01)
That was a good one.
NatsHoney (53:02)
That makes me so angry. You know? Like, I appreciate
AMD (53:06)
yeah.
NatsHoney (53:08)
tears of joy, tears of sadness and disappointment. I I I I do not like it and it makes me angry and just the fact that like again, how long have we been in this this industry has been around for X amount of years. And I mean it’s
AMD (53:24)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (53:24)
it’s a long ass fucking time. And for somebody who’s like, I have twelve years experience, so that means that it’s still happening.
NatsHoney (53:32)
It’s still happening. Like
AMD (53:34)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (53:35)
that’s insane. That is insane
AMD (53:38)
Yeah, I mean
NatsHoney (53:39)
to me.
AMD (53:39)
yeah. All the bad things that we do to each other are still happening. You know. and it just seems like that is just like such a basic thing. Like, why are you kicking people around? You know, and like we’re supposed to care for each other, you know?
AMD (54:04)
Yeah, it’s frustrating.
NatsHoney (54:04)
Mean that really fucks with people’s
NatsHoney (54:05)
confidence. Like that can really crush someone.
AMD (54:09)
Yeah, I guess, yeah. I guess it’s funny ’cause I I just feel like it’s such a common occurrence. I I personally like I’ve looked back on my own life and things I’ve been kicked out of, you know, and I’m like and it wasn’t until like six months ago it’s like, it’s like was horaphobia ’cause like no one let me into their clubs and do stuff ’cause of horophobia. And here I was just oblivious, right?
AMD (54:38)
But then I figured out, like, I’ve been kicked out of so much stuff, like friendships, relationships, like clubs, projects, whatever, you know. probably because horaphobia this whole time. I remember specifically when I was hanging out with my friends, I used to have a lot of male friends when I was younger, and I’d meet their female friends and they would ask they would all really like me. And then I would ask tell them what I did. Eventually it would come out, and they would just they just stopped talking to me.
AMD (55:07)
And they never wanted to be my friend outside of ever because they found like that’s what I’m talking about when I’m saying like I got kicked out of things. It’s like I’m like a chronic, you know, problem or I’m not trying to convey that. Maybe I am, who knows? But
AMD (55:25)
but you know, yeah, so when I hear that, like and and I appreciate your empathy and but for me I’m almost I’m like, my god, this is so normal.
NatsHoney (55:36)
It’s it’s just it’s it it really hit me. You know, I
AMD (55:39)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (55:39)
saw Jinx perform before we interviewed and I’ve never seen anyone fuck a pillow like that on stage. It the movement, the flow, it was
AMD (55:47)
Right. Yeah.
NatsHoney (55:50)
incredible and to know that this individual was discriminated a and
NatsHoney (56:00)
approach with like a very like a I would I just I I think devalue like, you know,
AMD (56:04)
Yeah, thank you.
NatsHoney (56:05)
just immediately like uplifting someone. you’re the great, you’re great, you’re
AMD (56:08)
never thought.
NatsHoney (56:09)
great, you’re great, you’re great, you’re great. on second thought, you’re actually second class. We really don’t like you. You’re not really you know, like what the fuck?
AMD (56:15)
Yeah.
AMD (56:17)
Yeah. Well because ’cause they do things like fuck pillows. You know what I mean? And like we think that that’s fucking genius because it is. Okay. But you know there’s people
NatsHoney (56:25)
Great. It was beautiful.
AMD (56:28)
out there, what are you talking about? Fucking pillows? Like that’s disgusting. You know what I mean? Like Well, not only that,
NatsHoney (56:33)
their imagination isn’t big enough and they’re taking up too much air on this earth.
AMD (56:37)
it’s not yeah, it’s their imagination and then it’s it’s like, you know, you know.
AMD (56:43)
There’s other things tied into it, which we could talk about for hours, like religion and and how even if you’re not religious, we’re s we’re still affected by religion. I was telling this D MJ the other night because I’m trying to explain like our perceptions of sex is different, right? When I say hours, I mean sex workers, right? I’m like, sex can be intimate or it cannot be intimate. Like it can be a sport for me or it can be intimate.
AMD (57:06)
But my private, intimate, how I’m gonna live my life conversations, like that’s sacred. Cause he’s like, Well, if sex isn’t sacred, then what is? And I was like, My time with you. My time with you is sacred and sex is just something we do with our time.
NatsHoney (57:15)
Yeah. Yeah. Intimacy. Yeah.
NatsHoney (57:20)
The the the conversations. What I disclose, what I share, what you share. The experience, the memories. Like I’m great asexual. Like it’s not yeah, it doesn’t
AMD (57:27)
Right. But all yeah. Yeah.
AMD (57:35)
But I think what my the point that also I’m trying to make is that just to keep myself on track, because our conversation went many places, was that the way n regular people, I’m saying outside of sex work, view sex is still conservative based on religious ideals, even if you’re not religious, because it just kind of like it just
AMD (57:56)
pours over, right? And it’s so like if you’re having sex with someone outside of your partner, or if you’re having sex with multiple people, like that’s icky and weird. Even if you’re not going to church every Sunday, people still think that way.
NatsHoney (58:12)
Civilians have a lot of learning to do.
AMD (58:14)
Right.
NatsHoney (58:15)
You know, it’s one thing to be someone who is on looking without supporting. It’s another thing to be an ally. You know, there there’s there’s different buckets that people can put themselves in. They should probably think twice and then figure out which bucket they need they really want to be represented in.
AMD (58:33)
Yeah. And like stop just stop being so uptight about sex, ’cause maybe if we weren’t so uptight about sex, we wouldn’t be so uptight about people who get paid to do it. Right? I don’t know. I’m d what do I know? I’m just guessing.
NatsHoney (58:48)
Well, I think if people actually took the time to listen to sex workers, we could be a lot far farther in humanity than what we are. Like you can’t keep can’t keep the good spirits down and we’re filled with good spirits. So sooner or later they
AMD (59:02)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (59:03)
they have to listen to us. So let’s yeah. Hmm.
AMD (59:05)
Well, there are people listening. Yeah. There
AMD (59:08)
are people listening. I did want to go back real quick to and touch on Be’snees and give them a shout out because Beesneys and the bar who we were talking about earlier have created basically a thrift store for pole dance wearer and stripper gear. and so people donate clothes to them.
AMD (59:27)
And they they resell these things at like thrift store prices a little higher than thrift store prices. To give you an example, they got several pairs of pleaser shoes that were brand new, never been worn, and they sold them for $25 each. This is helping baby strippers get equipped for when they’re going into the field. It helps strippers who are experiencing financial difficulty and need to buy clothes and not spend
NatsHoney (59:52)
That part.
AMD (59:52)
so much money. That shit is so fucking expensive, right?
NatsHoney (59:55)
You gotta
NatsHoney (59:56)
keep them expenses low. You the whole mission is to keep your expenses low so you can get your profits high. Yeah.
AMD (59:58)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s yeah,
AMD (01:00:02)
it’s helping people get stuff out of their closets that they tried on one time and it didn’t fit them right and they never wanted to throw away, etc. So you can find more information about that online. It’s called the community shop and we’ll provide links. But they basically give a hundred percent of the proceeds to yes work. So that’s a really big deal. So we want to say a massive thank you.
AMD (01:00:23)
to The Bar. Bee’s Knees and of course The Community Shop. Thank you so much. They are listening. And then next up we have Michelle Stanek is who I interviewed. yeah. So that is the last one that we have to go through. Should be interesting. Are you ready? Okay.
NatsHoney (01:00:42)
I am.
VIDEO OF MICHELLE INTERVIEW, TRANSCRIPT NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME
NatsHoney (01:07:03)
Okay.
NatsHoney (01:07:04)
Yeah, I got a couple. I got a couple. first I’ll say I do appreciate Michelle Stanek. I think
NatsHoney (01:07:14)
I appreciate the work, the effort, and all the good jazz. I do understand the notion of the goal pulse being moved, but I think we also have to understand that the goal pulse will constantly be moved because I think that sex workers will continue to express what they need at any given time. So those posts will change, and I think that it’s the commitment of Michelle Stanek and of
NatsHoney (01:07:44)
others to meet everyone where they’re at. And it’s true. Like, you know, Michelle’s like, I throw when I can. If I got the budget, then I got the budget. And I think we can all relate to that, right? And so it’s like, but that but that post might move again.
AMD (01:07:57)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (01:07:58)
You know what I mean? So now it’s like, cause now I I believe
AMD (01:08:00)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (01:08:00)
like even right here in this conversation, like we’re we’re bringing we’re making even more we’re moving the goal post. We’re saying, hey
NatsHoney (01:08:08)
What about pole history? Are you making sure to incorporate that into sex? Like we’re we’re going to continue to ask for more. I
AMD (01:08:15)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (01:08:15)
don’t think that there’s any way of getting around that. And I think that we have to anybody who’s on the on the receiving end of the request.
NatsHoney (01:08:25)
needs to see what they can do and just kind of take that in. If they can act upon what is being requested, go for it. If you have to, you know, if you if you can’t do it, if maybe you’re you don’t own a studio so you can’t or you talk to the studio owner and they’re not really feeling the poll history because they don’t think that they can make money for it. Like d at least try. Try to meet us at where we’re moving the goal pulse. And I do think that Michelle Stanick had a very good example of trying to meet. Like I throw when I can, you know, I give the process
NatsHoney (01:08:55)
I’m I’m doing it, but I do think that we the conversation will continue because we are going to continue to ask and request things of those in the pole industry. And that’s just what it is. And we wouldn’t
AMD (01:09:09)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (01:09:09)
have had to do that if it would have been clear from the very very beginning.
AMD (01:09:13)
Yeah.
NatsHoney (01:09:14)
So
AMD (01:09:15)
Yeah, exactly. And and like you said, like meet people where they’re at, like for some reason somebody who doesn’t know Michelle or doesn’t know that Michelle goes to the strip clubs came upon that post and reacted to that post. Right. But like I don’t know if Michelle Stannik goes to the strip clubs. I know because I’m her friend, but if I don’t know Michelle Stannik, I don’t know if she goes to the strip club. And I think that
AMD (01:09:42)
Like when people do leave a comment like such as that, like, you should be doing X, Y, and Z, you know, all you gotta do is be like, I do, thanks. You know. I do
NatsHoney (01:09:52)
Yeah.
AMD (01:09:53)
do that and I encourage other people to do that. Thanks for thanks for reminding me and and everyone else, right? As as
NatsHoney (01:10:00)
And sometimes that sometimes
NatsHoney (01:10:01)
that’s hard though. You know what I mean?
AMD (01:10:03)
Yeah, sure. I guess. I guess I’m also like a lot of times I feel like pole dancers ask sex workers, like in a friend setting, and I guess I’m saying this because it happens to me, like, well, how how do I do better? Like, what are ways that I can do better? And then, and this is sort of a response to that. When you see a comment that assumes that you’re not doing what you’re doing, then you know, e educate, inform, take a moment.
AMD (01:10:30)
To be cool with it and to meet people where they’re at, like you said.
NatsHoney (01:10:35)
Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like we all still have a lot to learn from each other. Sounds like there’s room for the pole industry to still grow. Sounds like the bridge between sex workers and those that or pole dancers and sex workers I’ll say. It sounds like that bridge is still being built, but it does sound like there’s more of us on the bridge building. I’m optimistic. I’ll just say that.
AMD (01:11:03)
I feel the same way, optimistic, and I’ll say that it has been a long bumpy journey. And I think finally after like this last maybe year, I’m starting to see glimmers of light that I’m like, I think it some things might have worked. And I’m talking very specifically about
AMD (01:11:28)
The continuous tension and ongoing discomfortness between pole dancers and sex workers and you know me, I I I want unity speak.
NatsHoney (01:11:41)
Yeah, and
NatsHoney (01:11:41)
I totally took like a whole nother lane. I was just like, you know, fuck Like, you know, I’ve been very much like if you’re not one of me, then yeah, I ain’t really trying to fuck with you. Like, you ain’t getting it, you ain’t getting it. Like, if I if I engage in conversation at a studio with a polar, my first fucking question, especially if they like ask to like
NatsHoney (01:12:05)
I have a show that I’m doing. I wanna do this, I wanna do this. I’m like, yes, but what is your viewpoint on sex workers in this industry right now? Where is your v
AMD (01:12:12)
Wonder that.
NatsHoney (01:12:13)
I mean, I just I I cannot have conversations with individuals that think that they are equal to my knowledge or ability or creative
AMD (01:12:23)
Right.
NatsHoney (01:12:24)
or my even my creative aspect and then feel like you’re gonna like like belittle me? Like, nah, nah. You gotta meet meet
AMD (01:12:30)
Right. Yeah.
NatsHoney (01:12:32)
me where my where my mentality is.
AMD (01:12:34)
Right, a hundred percent. one last thing before we close, because this
NatsHoney (01:12:40)
Mm.
AMD (01:12:41)
episode comes out in mid August and at the end of September, which is about six weeks from this release episode, we are celebrating International Pole Dance Day.
AMD (01:12:55)
So thought this might be a good time to mention that we are encouraging pole dance studio owners and instructors to host fundraising events and to give money to sex worker organizations, anyone around this beautiful globe of ours of your choice. Although we are advocating for it and pushing for it, we encourage you to not only consider us as a place to donate.
AMD (01:13:23)
But please also consider the countless many other sex worker orgs that are around the world doing tireless, often unseen work. You have no idea. I see these people all the time killing it. And the money has dried up from this administration drying up a lot of federal grants, which led people to look for grants elsewhere, which meant the grant pool dried up.
AMD (01:13:49)
For sex worker organizations first because we already had less options to begin with.
AMD (01:13:57)
So please don’t forget September 30th, International Pole Dance Day. If you can’t create an event, you can donate to an org. You can share your story of why you chose pole dancing over any other activity. And you can also uplift sex workers and remind people about the history of pole dance, that it derives from strippers full stop. No one else. Strippers
NatsHoney (01:14:22)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
AMD (01:14:24)
full stop.
AMD (01:14:26)
Thank you. You can learn more at yaswork.org to find out more about that event.
NatsHoney (01:14:31)
And if you need you know, suggestions
NatsHoney (01:14:34)
on organizations, I think we can help with that too. So, you know, if you’re running into a wall,
AMD (01:14:36)
Yeah, there’s actually some
NatsHoney (01:14:38)
we can help.
AMD (01:14:39)
Yeah, there’s actually orgs listed on yeswork.org. you can go there and yeah, and you can reach out like Nat said and ask us and we would be happy to point you if you feel like you have a a cause in particular in mind that you want to support, let us know and we can point you in the right direction. yeah. Of course. Yes.
NatsHoney (01:14:59)
Can I say one more thing before we close out? sh
NatsHoney (01:15:02)
I believe this is also gonna be released shortly before Polcon West. I’m not able
AMD (01:15:07)
Yes.
NatsHoney (01:15:07)
to make it out, but if anybody who’s going out there, have fun and please record some stuff because maybe I can look on Instagram or something or Blue Sky or I don’t know. I’d like to
AMD (01:15:18)
Okay.
NatsHoney (01:15:19)
check it out, you know what I mean, since I won’t be there. So go have
AMD (01:15:21)
Okay.
NatsHoney (01:15:22)
fun, be in good spirits and remember to uplift sex workers while you’re there.
AMD (01:15:27)
Absolutely. Yes. And thank you so much. Special thanks to Colleen Jolly and the entire team at International Pole Convention for letting us run around with our cameras and for letting us talk very candidly about our relationships. And thank you so much for your support and for having us there at the event. It was awesome. You guys rock. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in as always. Don’t forget to check out our main podcast website, yespodcast.com.
AMD (01:15:56)
And check out our network website, yaswork.org. And thanks so much guys. We’ll see you next time. Bye.