For the Love of Strippers #158 Transcript
In this YAS Podcast episode, host AM Davies joins NatsHoney (president of Strippers United, vice president of YAS Work), Selena (writer and Strippers United wellness director), and filmmaker Julia to mark International Sex Workers’ Rights Day and the international community release of their documentary short, For the Love of Strippers. They discuss the film’s collaborative approach, why sex workers are often excluded from creative control in documentaries, and how limited funding shaped the project. The conversation covers pandemic-era organizing, SESTA/FOSTA, AB5, worsening club conditions that pushed Nats and Selena out of dancing, and the need to distinguish consensual sex work from trafficking narratives. They close with calls for visibility, community screenings, donations, and public advocacy against stigma.
*This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* *This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors.* Begin transcript after opening credits.
Selena: [00:00:00] Just seeing the domestic realities. There’s not, the glitz and glam of a typical stripper portrayal. We’re talking about having dreams and having interior worlds. I think that adds some complexity to an often flattened narrative of who we are.
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AM: Hi everyone, this is YAS Podcast. I’m AM Davies. I’m your host for today’s podcast. We need to say that now because we have different hosts and that makes me so happy. So thank you so much for being here with us. We have [00:01:00] some recurring guests and we have a new guest, and I would like to just get to it. I don’t like to waste any time. We’re gonna do an intro of each person so you can get to know everyone’s voice. They’re gonna tell us their name, their pronouns, and if they identify as a sex worker or not. And then we’re gonna talk about this amazing movie that these people made together.
So let’s start at the top. Nats honey, will you introduce yourself?
Nats: Hello everyone. My name is NatsHoney. I am the current president of Strippers United. I’m also the vice president of YAS Work. I stay working my pronouns, she, her, they and I identify as a sex worker.
AM: Lovely. Selena.
Selena: Hi guys. I am Selena. I am a writer, former Prez of Strippers United and current wellness director at su. I am a sex worker and I have done most sex work.
Julia: And Julia, [00:02:00] hi.
Hi my name is Julia. I am a filmmaker. I. Don’t identify as a sex worker. I’m a lover of sex workers. My pronouns are she her.
AM: Nice. Thank you.
I forgot
Selena: mine. They, them.
AM: Thank you. Perfect. Thanks for getting that in there. Yeah. So hi everyone. Are we so excited about today? Today is a big day.
Nats: Today is
Selena: a busy day.
Definitely.
Nats: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Today’s a busy day. Who wants to tell everyone what today is?
Selena: Nas, you go ahead.
Nats: I knew you were gonna say that.
I knew you were gonna say that. Okay. So we’re
doing
Selena: double need to know the NA day.
Nats: Okay. Later on today we’re having the international virtual screening For the Love of Strippers. We’re really excited for that. We’ve already had a little smaller one nationwide a couple of weeks ago, and that went really well.
Really excited and we’re just gonna be talking about the [00:03:00] film all year. We’re gonna talk about international sex worker rights. ’cause it also coincides on that particular holiday today. And we’re also doing this podcast on that very same day. So you guys will see it in the future, but currently that’s where we’re at.
AM: Yes. And then very near future. Yeah. Today is International Sex Workers’ Rights Day. It is the international Community Release of For the Love of Strippers, which is a movie created by NatsHoney, Selena and Julia, when I say created by, collectively. Nats Honey. Selena, you’re the stars. Julia, director, producer, can you name all the roles you had, ju Julia?
Julia: I’m the executive producer, but I had some very hardworking producers, including Liz, who was the producer on the film. I definitely can’t take credit for all the incredible producing that she did, and also Selena and NatsHoney. Were creative consultants. And did a lot of work as far as brainstorming.
Awesome. A [00:04:00] lot of the shoots and, yeah. How to shoot and just vibes.
AM: Nice. So they definitely helped shape, like they basically were consulting and being the center of the film. So they had some sort of creative control.
Creative
Julia: consultant. Is that an actual job?
That’s just what I felt like they were doing. So I was like, let’s do creative consultant. I don’t know. It
AM: seems
Julia: like I would love to be hired as a creative consultant just for the people out there that
AM: Gotta plug you can,
Julia: I’m like, that sounds fun. But just meaning, especially how we’re shooting things and I think, like one particular shoot comes to mind is like when we were doing reenactments of how they would be dancing, right? So we did this one shoot where we just did like beautiful photography of both of them dancing, hanging out, kind of beauty shots.
And so we consulted of like, how would you be doing this? Or what kind of lighting or what would the vibe be for this? [00:05:00] Yeah.
AM: Of course. Nats and Selena would know that. Yeah. Yeah.
Julia: I mean there’s, of course there’s, there’s a lot of kind of creativity that’s left up to me, but in documentary in particular, the way that I like to make films, it’s like you’re not, to me it would be insane to be imposing a hundred percent of my vision on top of someone else’s story that is not mine.
There needs, in my mind, there needs to be some sort of collaboration, which is where that role came from.
AM: Nice. And what NatsHoney, Selena, you guys obviously have experience with lighting and making yourselves look fabulous, but was this a little different situation or have you been on film sets before and been able to have that type of creative control?
Nats: I’m pretty sure lighting was probably more like in Selena’s area for me. I don’t Okay. I just know that I felt like I was included. I felt like my opinion was valued. I feel like I helped steer the direction in terms of what I was feeling, what I was going through, where I thought the community was headed.
So I do think that we played a crucial part in [00:06:00] the development of the film for sure. And I’m honored to be a creative consultant and I I hope I get, I too am hired to do that again. That would be great.
AM: What about you, Selena?
Selena: Yeah, so I’ve helped run some video shoots before and done creative direction for things like for some strippers, united shoots, among other things.
AM: Yeah.
Selena: And so I love handling lighting. I love. Thinking about color and staging, and so it was really nice to be included and to be treated as somebody who can have some expertise. Because I think a lot of times in documentary, if you’re the subject, you’re relegated to a place where you are separate from the actual production of the thing that you’re in. Yeah. And you don’t have very much creative say, and you don’t get to really even know what’s happening until the thing is done. And I felt really included in Julia’s production, just the way that we were asked as things went along, if it felt right, if the final cut made sense.
If there was something that they [00:07:00] missed. And so that was really empowering, I think, especially when with this subject, because sex work is such a difficult subject to represent well, or I guess it, maybe it is not, but a lot of people don’t do it well because they don’t ask these questions.
They like to make a lot of assumptions. And so it is really nice that this was handled the way that it was and we were included.
AM: That’s really awesome. Yeah, because obviously, I don’t need to tell those of you that I’m talking to directly right now, but in general, for any audience members that don’t know, sex workers don’t get a say. And there’s like loads and loads of media out there in the world about sex workers, even directly documentaries, about sex workers that are where the subjects don’t get to say. And not to say that sex workers are the only marginalized group of people that experience that is really commonplace in general.
But, yeah, that is an ongoing issue. And so that [00:08:00] sounds really cool. And the movie was amazing. We should tell people what the movie was about. Who would like to tell that story? The little, like a brief synopsis.
Julia: So it follows Selena Nats over the course of three or four years.
AM: Nice.
Julia: And as they are working in different ways to change the industry and it’s not as explicit as their, working on this one project that gets completed by the end of the film. I think that’s two times, right? It’s ’cause that’s not how life is. And so instead we drop into their lives at what ends up being this like, pivotal turning point.
In partially and personal lives, partially in the industry. And just we see this push in the shift that’s happening in the background of their lives and how they’re contributing to it and really leading, a conversation about how we can change the industry and practices that have been going on for [00:09:00] way too long.
AM: Yeah. Nice. And I wanna ask Nats and Selena, when Julia came to you with this idea and this project, like what was your initial reaction? And also what was your understanding? I wanna know what you think inspired Julia to make this movie.
Because Julia’s not a sex worker. There’s no skin in the game for Julia. So first you had to trust, right? You had to trust this person and you had to analyze the situation. And then you had to understand why is this person wanting to do this project? And I think that’s a lot- a question a lot of us sex workers ask ourselves when people approach us.
So I’d love to hear from you what that was like.
Nats: I’m going to be brutally honest. I am already like that. I’m already questioning everyone’s motive when it comes to their involvement with sex workers and if they’re passionate the way they’re the way that I’m passionate that’s what-
I didn’t need to have those kind of questions. Instead, [00:10:00] I trusted the source. Julia expressed to me that they had she had, excuse me, she had went to some of the local clubs here, made a couple of friends. She attended a couple of the virtual shows, so I knew that the route that they were coming in, it worked.
Okay. That’s good. And then the next question that I did propose was. If it changes, are you still are you gonna be a part of it? If everybody gets down on you for doing it and being involved with sex workers, are you going to then pivot or are you really committed? And the answer was, I’m truly committed.
I, I want to understand what you guys are going through and also make it very clear to the rest of the world that this is what you guys have to experience and we should probably be doing something about it. Yeah. Here we are four years later.
AM: Yeah.
Selena: And for me so I was introduced to Julia by [00:11:00] Reagan. I’m pretty sure.
Yeah. And so Julia had gotten interested. In 2020 because of the cyber clown girls shows. And so she was like an outsider seeing this movement happening of strippers who were coming together to financially support each other through collectivized work through creating this kind of- this DIY cooperative out of nowhere. And she was interested in that story, interested in talking to us. And and whenever we met, I think I’m more trusting than Nats. And for better or worse, but for me, I think a lot of times as a sex worker, you have to make really fast decisions about people like it’s a yes or no, especially when you’re handling clients like you’re always assessing danger.
And I guess I to be a little, I don’t know. Not woo, not woo, but like [00:12:00] I was a little bit like, you know what? I like her vibe. I tru, I think I trust this woman. Let’s see what happens. And and that I feel like my instinct was good. I’m really glad that it was good. I feel well, Julia’s such a wonderful person and this yeah.
Has been a really wonderful experience.
AM: Nice. I love that. It’s beautiful. I agree. I have the same feelings about Julia in the beginning too.
Julia: Yeah. We should reveal at this point in the podcast. AM was also part of this project early on.
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
Julia: We talked so much. And if and the reason that am wasn’t in the final film too, is like we should, I don’t know, you can cut this out.
This is up to you.
AM: No, it’s fine. We can talk about it. I moved.
Julia: Yeah. And I didn’t, I was I was funding everything myself at the beginning. Yeah. And was keeping it like, focused on people in LA and the kind of the LA scene in the LA crew. And yeah. Didn’t have the funding to expand it. And I think that also answers the question of like, why isn’t it longer?
[00:13:00] And I was just like, at the beginning it was supposed to be a feature, yeah. Yeah. And I think financially I had to make a choice. I had a kid and I had been spending my savings on shooting and was really invested. But then, like my husband’s always this was, it was keeping me up at night that the film was paused in like unfinished and I needed to focus it and get it done in whatever way I could, and with the means that I had, now that I had this like young baby.
And so I just was like in the middle of the night when I was like, we need to just make it a short, we just need to focus on what we have and make it a short and get it out in the world. Do you remember you guys, it’s I called you both being like, I’m so sorry, we have to pause the film.
I don’t know how to continue it and then called you back six months later. They’ve been through a lot with me and I’m so sorry to do this. I need one second to. Hopefully pop a pacifier in. I’ll be right back.
Nats: It’s cool to be a mom. I wish we weren’t so ashamed of it sometimes and made to feel like we always have to apologize for it.
AM: Yeah, [00:14:00] I agree. Yeah, I totally agree with that. So we were just talking about a lack of funding for the project you were having a baby. You had to scale down for several reasons. A lot of that having to do with funding. And Selena wanted to touch on a point about lack of funding for sex worker projects.
Selena: Yeah, I think a big part of this. Issue with funding is that we are, we’re telling the wrong topic or the topic the wrong way for people who might wanna fund this. The amount of money that goes into for example, true crime documentaries about sex work or documentaries about trafficking, sex workers, and about just people who are doing sex work under duress or under awful conditions. There’s always money for that. But whenever you have a narrative like this where we are [00:15:00] talking about empowerment, we’re talking about choice, we’re talking, we’re adding some complexity to the issue. Nats and I are here.
Of our own volition that kind of narrative doesn’t fit very easily with a lot of funding opportunities. And so I guess I’m curious, Julia, if that speaks to you.
Julia: Yes, totally. And I think it should be mentioned. Actually I’m so sorry he’s still crying. I’m just gonna bring him in here.
I’m sorry.
AM: It’s okay. Don’t apologize. That’s okay. Everything’s fine.
Julia: I have my milk supply, I have my pacifier. I have a bouncer chair, so anything that comes up, I can I can address without having to leave again. Honestly, this film, I’ve had two kids during the door shift that took me to make this
AM: movie Wild. You have kids faster than finish a movie? Incredible.
Julia: Yeah.
Which like, that’s a metaphor for like how hard it is to get, [00:16:00]
AM: oh, it’s so hard. Especially if you’re a mother, is so hard. The world is not set up to be different.
Julia: It really is not. And you would think, yeah. 2026, we’ve come, somewhere. But no, we I think people like to say too, they’re like, oh, we love a female director.
We support women or mother. Oh, you’re a mother. That’s great working mother. But then when it comes down to it, they’re not gonna hire you. They just like wanna. They, because they don’t wanna deal with the fact that life is complicated. But the truth is that life is complicated no matter what your responsibilities are not.
AM: Yeah.
Julia: Like mothering is, very visible, yeah. But like you have all a bunch of other stuff. So I don’t know. I feel like there’s a long way to go for that.
Nats: We should all have more grace for each other.
Julia: Totally.
AM: If we talk about funding and sex worker projects while you change the diaper, that’s all good? Yes. Okay, great. Perfect.
Selena: Reminds me of do you guys ever listen to Chatty [00:17:00] Broads?
AM: No.
Selena: So Chatty Broads is like a, it’s a podcast and they had just had. Kids and so they’re just like dealing with the kids through the podcast.
Having to take nursing breaks and stuff like that. And they’re like if you hear baby chewing, that’s the baby chewing.
AM: I love that. What can we do? Life is life and there’s no use in pretending. Like we don’t have to deal with these things.
Okay, so while Julia’s taking care of that, the baby situation, we were talking about a lack of funding for sex worker projects. Did we cover that all the way before we got-
Selena: Yeah. Yeah,
AM: we did.
Selena: The only thing that I had asked was just like how Julia felt about that.
If she had Oh, thoughts.
AM: We wanted to know how Julia felt about that. And
Nats: Julia, while we were recording said some stuff while we were down on that topic. Oh.
AM: Which we will insert that clip. Right here.
Julia: I wanted to end that part of the conversation that we were talking about funding.
And [00:18:00] how difficult it was to fund this project at the beginning and that dictating how the project ended up, being a short, but also like we were truly like saved at the end there by getting finishing funding and like being able to, shoot the last few times and edit and and that was-
Also we’re, was funded by someone who doesn’t have any experience with sex workers loved Nats and Selena. Loved the footage, loved the story, loved like, this is like a human story. This isn’t it’s, it doesn’t have to be so other, right?
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AM: Remember Selena, when we used to we would go to a studio and there would be like a sound producer, right?
And now I just I remember during the pandemic, I just did it from my bed. Like I look back on it. At the time I didn’t think it was crazy and I look back on it now, I’m like. You were recording multiple podcast sessions a week in your bed with one leg, like for a full year, and like it worked and people were listening.
Selena: Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
Selena: Yeah. We were making things happen. Yeah. With what we had.
AM: You had to during the pandemic, right? Yeah. And that is part of what, when this movie was shot. Am I getting that right? Yeah. Yes.
Selena: Yeah.
AM: Do you remember what year that started the filming?
Selena: It was either 2020 or 2021.
’cause I remember for so much of it, we were on Zoom calls with Julia, just like [00:20:00] talking to her, catching up on life and she couldn’t always be out here for various travel restriction reasons and life reasons. Yeah, so much of what I guess you don’t get to see are all those Zoom calls that we all had.
AM: Yeah. Yeah. And what I find interesting too, and I’m thinking about the moments in the movie, is like what we all were going through at the time because we were all working together at Strippers United and going, what we were going through individually, because of what was happening, because of the pandemic and everything just shifted, right?
And so I’m having, I’m just having flashes when I was watching the movie. And I’m seeing it now in a different way, which is like you two trying to figure out what life is gonna be like with this new way of the world being the way it is. And SESTA/FOSTA being signed into law, like we were [00:21:00] just surviving, right?
Selena: Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot about this with because it is like For the Love of Strippers, but Nats and I stopped dancing. NS you stopped before me, but I stopped, or I think you’ve been, you were
Nats: yeah, I haven’t been inside of a club since the pandemic. I feel like I was pushed out after AB5.
I, I haven’t been back inside the club.
Selena: Same. Yeah. I also felt pushed out, I got pushed out of my home club after AB5 passed. And after my club actually started enforcing it. And there were just a lot of crackdowns on what we could do and especially on tipping and, I mentioned in the documentary that my club was taking 50% of every dollar that I brought in, but by the time I left, they were taking more like 60% of every dollar that I had made, and they were still asking for the tip out at the end of the night.
And they were pressuring me to tip [00:22:00] more explicitly. And just generally threatening my job. And so I felt like it was just becoming more and more toxic and the things that I’d really liked about the club were really gone at that point. Like I really liked that It was a very intergenerational club.
Like I had colleagues who were 18 and I had colleagues who were in their fifties. And I liked that we were a more full sec, full service or like friendly club. And those of us who were doing extras were getting more pressure than ever. I liked that they were really generous with us for a while.
They would, pay for our drinks and our food. Like we could have whatever meals, however many meals we wanted while we were working. And they were like, that’s fine. And they stopped that. All these little things to just build an atmosphere where we felt like important. We were losing all of that and they were taking more of our money and my friends were getting fired [00:23:00] because they weren’t meeting the quotas.
Before it was like, if you weren’t making that much money as a dancer, if you were just more of a stage dancer, it was fine. But with AB5, everybody had the pressure to sell dances and yeah, especially people who are not that comfortable with like full contact or with dance rooms that are more private, like with closed curtains or stuff like that.
Like they felt pressure to do things that were beyond their personal boundaries. And so yeah, it just became really untenable for me and I realized so much of the industry was turning to be that way. And so I just felt like the love I think as a dancer, you accept a degree of exploitation by the club in exchange for a certain amount of revenue.
And a certain amount of freedom in how you work and like the amount of revenue and the freedom was going [00:24:00] down and the exploitation was going up, and like it never feels amazing that you have to deal with those things like that there is that tension. But it’s it’s a devil’s bargain that a lot of us make.
And I don’t know if you all feel that way ’cause we’re, obviously we’re fighting for a different way of being, but that’s my experience and how I’ve made sense of some of these things.
AM: Thank you. Yeah. Nats, do you have anything to add to that?
Nats: No, I think that was a thorough thought all the way through.
Yes. And because I know the club that’s team is referencing, like I understand it on a whole nother level. That was perfectly said.
Selena: Yeah. And I’m, and also like we, I mean we also lost a lot of the diversity in a general sense, not just age, but color, sure. My club is known for discrimination based on color and other stuff and body size.
Yeah.
AM: Yeah. So what are [00:25:00] some things that like, as sex workers, our audience of sex workers, like they- I’m sure can relate to so much of what you’re saying, Selena, but what is important for civilians to know? Why are these stories, your stories, this movie, why is it important for civilians to be familiar with this movie and absorb the information?
Nats: I think the one word that I think of is visibility. I think that people need to be aware that we’re not going anywhere. Like sex workers have been around for, since the beginning of time, I’m assuming. Come on now. Come on. How did, how do we all get here? Okay, so we’re not going anywhere.
So I think visibility and just not- People need to see us, meet us where we’re at, and fight alongside with us because we’re not going anywhere. Join the party. That’s where that’s what I think about that. [00:26:00] Yeah.
Selena: Julia. Julia, you weigh in. I’ve been talking too much.
AM: Yeah and here’s how I would pose the question to Julia okay, why is it important for civilians to understand this stuff and what have your immediate civilian circle, how have they changed through this process?
Julia: I think that there’s, there’s multiple parts to answer this question. And one thing that popped pops up, like thinking about this question is one of our eps WA talks about this a lot and wrote about this, about how she was watching one of our cuts and one of our early cuts, probably the rough cut or something, and w as with a friend. I believe I’ve, I got permission to tell this story for her, but it’s not gonna be as good that she’s not telling it.
Okay. But she was with one of her friends and they were like, would you consider stripping this is, like listening to Nats and Selena would you ever consider it and our EP because our EP like loves to dance and all these things, [00:27:00] and our EP was like.
I like- my instinct was to say no, and then I wanted to sit with like, why was I having that thought? And then it started this whole kind of snowball of like how, of her kind of interrogating herself of like. Why? Why was that initial reaction, ‘No’? Because she loves all the things that are involved in it.
And she realized that like it’s because of the societal stigma. It’s not about what the actual work is. ’cause she’s loves dancing, loves feeling sexy, loves that attention. Would love to make much more money quicker than in this slow ass documentary world. So there was all of these positives and she was like, but then why was my initial thought, “no”? And she was like, it was basically like live de, like deconstructing, like the way that society had taught her to think about the industry. And she’s oh my God, she called me. She’s this is we gotta make this movie. I’m like, I know. We’re making it. It’s like it’s already happening.
But I think that is a good example of [00:28:00] how, in other ways, we think about the industry as civilians. It’s oh, there’s all this support for strippers and stripping and strip clubs are like, so fun, such a great part of like society. But then when we wanna talk about like workers’ rights for the strip clubs, all of a sudden like everything is crickets.
Everything is silent. There’s much more support for even Amazon workers organizing, which is also great. But for me, I’m like so what’s the difference? Like I don’t wanna pit Amazon workers against us. ’cause we love that. We love any, workers getting together and organizing.
But to me, it’s like it was as a civilian, it was so weird, honestly, just to be using real language that we’re advocating for all of these other kind of like industries and groups to have a better workplace. But we don’t want strip clubs to have a better workplace. Like why? What it, what’s in it for you for it not to be like that? What? I don’t, to me, I just don’t understand that. And yeah. Hence the film was born.
Selena: I think [00:29:00] we do a lot to like myth bust some of the misconceptions about who strippers are, what we think, how we engage with the industry, what our goals are. I mean seeing Nat and I or Nats and I like being strippers, but also being community organizers and Nats as a mother and just seeing the domestic realities. There’s not, the glitz and glam of a typical stripper portrayal. We’re talking about having dreams and having interior worlds. I think that adds some complexity to an often flattened narrative of who we are.
And like Julia was saying, I hope that it works to do some destigma- destigmatization work. I hope that. People are questioning [00:30:00] some of these initial reactions, like I support strippers, but no, couldn’t be me. I like what they do, but I would never. That kind of distancing.
I hope that it creates, it adds more humanity to the lens in which we’re painted. And it gives people some questions too. ’cause I think what I’ve heard with people who watch the movie is what can I do? Or I wanna know more about some of these things. I wanna know did Nats ever buy the club?
What about some of these goals that these dancers have? What else is going on? And I really love that it sparks curiosity.
Julia: Yes, me too.
AM: Too. What do you say? What should do we, can we say to people who are learning about our plight? It’s just dawning on them today for the first time that something wants to be done, what?
What do we tell them? [00:31:00]
Nats: There’s several orgs that they can become monthly donors to monthly donors. There’s always a fundraiser happening, I like to think that everyone knows a sex worker. So either find the first one, start at home, support that one, whichever way it may be. And then after that, find an organization.
Support that organization. Maybe volunteer. There’s ways where you can just step up. You just literally have to step up to the plate. And once you step up there, you’ll see that there’s several different organizations based on, some are only for street based walkers, some only focus on bipoc porn actresses and things like that.
Some, sometimes it’s all about the region that you’re in. Maybe it’s only for Portland area. There’s Get it all. ’cause there’s a lot of orgs out there. Just get active.
Selena: Yeah. I think also on a more personal level, just participating in the conversation or creating the conversation. A lot of times people are scared to say that, or [00:32:00] scared to bring up the topic.
I think a lot of times like. It’s just not spoken about. And a lot of times, I’ll hear people quietly express support, whether it’s clients who are like, I think what you’re doing is amazing.
Like a little whisper support. But what we need is like full throated support. What we need is people showing up at city halls. Expressing support or writing in about issues that affect us. Or just talking to their friends whenever they make a joke at our expense. Adding some complexity to the conversation.
What did you mean by that? That’s a big one. Yeah. The joke picking up for us when we’re not in the room. Yeah.
AM: Yeah. Yes. I just got excited Selena, because the, you had said, create the conversation, not just have, not just be in conversation, which also definitely should be. But when you said create the conversation, I got excited [00:33:00] because I have.
Seen a little more of that very recently. But I would like to see more of that, like how these men are like, oh, we need to uplift women and how we have white activists talking about, the black communities, the brown communities. And then, but then there’s, but then there’s us. And it’s like the one group that’s consistently left out of the conversation that intersects with all of these other marginalized groups and it happens so much on all sides of everything.
And so just to talk more about sex workers. And all of the different types of sex workers there are to generate that conversation yourself as someone who’s not a sex worker in support of, I don’t know. That would, I think that would go a long way if more people could have those conversations that, and understand the nuances by listening also.
And that’s, for me, a big one. [00:34:00] Listen,
Julia: it reminds me of, something that came up after one of our screenings that Selena and Nats were at. We were screening somewhere and a film before us was about trafficking in sex work. And then both played our film right after this film. And it, like the fury that I felt at that q and a Nats was amazing and so composed and just shut it down. And I, meanwhile, I was like, internally, like freaking out. But anyway, this was for another day. But the idea that, not that trafficking doesn’t exist, but there was, it was it wasn’t how I would make a film, let’s just say that. It’s just about, it was about trafficking in sex work in and shot in a different way.
And I’m not, I don’t wanna get into a critique of the film, but the point was that it was talking about trafficking and then to set up, like that precedent and it had all of these stats that I’m not sure were correct, seemed way overblown. And then [00:35:00] our film plays right afterwards. It created this fog over our film of oh, are these people being trafficked too?
And they’re just not addressing it. And it made me so angry because I think like a lot of the way, and I think Selena and Nats already mentioned this earlier in the conversation. It’s like the way that we’re talking about sex work, the way that we’re talking about strippers in just, civilian society.
It’s like, why is it always the true crime shows? Why is it always these trafficked, like duuuuun…, and then, it just, it created this unnecessary drama that kind of what’s the word I’m looking for? Just put like a shadow over screening our film, which is diff is not that, but then it created this innate question in the audience mind of oh, are they just not addressing it like the other film addressed?
And I, that’s also something to for the civilian world to understand as well.
Nats: The difference between the two, consensual sex work and being trafficked and [00:36:00] yeah, they need to understand that. I think that trafficking orgs can do a better job of defining that, honestly. I think in order for civilians to understand that they’re separate, I think that the trafficking orgs need to undesstand that sex workers actually choose the work when you choose to do it. Like I consent to it, I am choosing it. However, if someone is next to me and they were trafficked, let’s get them all the help that they possibly need. They are telling you they did not choose it. So let’s listen to that.
I think that there’s room in the conversation for both perspectives. For both experiences. I don’t think that they need to be lumped in together. I am not a victim of my job. I am exploited in my job, but I’m speaking up about that. That’s my action. I’m agreeing to all of that. I’m not being forced to do it.
Selena: Yeah. I think a lot of times this narrative works the way that these anti-sex trafficking organizations want it to which [00:37:00] is to say they equate all sex work with trafficking or with non-consensual sex work or exploitation. And there is- they don’t want that nuance. And I think what was alarming about the film before ours was that it was like funded by some of these religious based no sex work is good sex work organizations.
And. It is really hard because that is what so many people see that is like their introduction to sex work as a concept. But what I will say is that in recent years, I’ve seen so much more content that is painting these stories as more more complicated than there’s a victim. There is a, an unwanted situation.
And it’s really wonderful to be part of a film that is trying to add that. And I feel like it is successfully [00:38:00] doing that.
AM: I agree. And I think that was really poor planning on whoever did run of show that day.
Selena: Oh, it was awful. It was so bad.
AM: But that’s also something that whoever was running just, they’re just, I don’t think someone’s I’m gonna ruin everyone’s day. They just, they’re not thinking. And that’s why we’re saying, will you please listen to us and hire us and pay us for the advice?
Julia: No, it’s definitely not intentionally. You’re exactly right. And that’s,
AM: but it was harmful in the process, although unintentional, it was still harmful in the process. Yeah. But
Selena: I will say that something that was a positive outcome with that was that some of the people on the, on the tech side the composer and the two composers for that short came up to us after and they were really curious about our story.
[00:39:00] And we had given them something that they hadn’t really thought about. You know
AM: That’s
Selena: right. Even though it was really unfortunate placement. There’s some good that maybe came out of it.
AM: Yeah.
Selena: I think that there’s also some a lot of complexity. Again, I’m keep using this damn word, but to the, to that short, and I don’t wanna focus on it too much, but there, there are a lot of people who are in the abolitionist movement who are sex workers, who have been trafficked and there are ways to have this narrative and to have our story interact with a story like that. But unfortunately, a lot of times the storytellers are like in the case of this, that other film, a person who’s read one book about trafficking and wants to tell a story in a particular, with a particular lens, rather than trying to understand, the humanity of this issue.
AM: [00:40:00] Yeah. Before we close out, I want to go over a couple of like little fun things from the movie. For instance, it’s so funny, I’ve known you two for a very long time now, and it wasn’t until I saw the credits in the movie, I was like, y’all have the same last name.
I never, and I’ve always known both of your names and I never noticed. Did you notice the same?
Selena: You’re not really, I never think about it. No. It’s so funny and it’s also it’s hard to beat it ’cause we’re like the light skins of this organization. So
Nats: that’s the part that cracks me up the most.
The fact that we, we both have curly hair and we’re lighter complexion. That’s a killer for me,
AM: For the record are not officially related, but yeah, people might think so, if they don’t know you
Nats: according to the diaspora, we could be, we don’t know,
AM: so do you want to like, [00:41:00] fill in those threads of did Selena finish school and what happened with Artists Plex?
Do you want, or do you wanna just leave them guessing where it is? Up to you.
Selena: Yeah, I’ll share. Okay. So I’m officially an associate therapist. I finished my school and I am doing some wellness events for Strippers United. If you’re a sex worker looking for some mental health support group style please look out for our monthly meetings.
But yeah I’m gonna be working as a therapist properly as soon as I find a job. Hopefully by the time this podcast is out, I’ll have a job.
AM: Hopefully. Yeah, that’s awesome.
Nats: And then in regards to Artists Plex, I’m still at it. I am very busy with Strippers United these days. So that takes up a lot of time and I do have a child.
If you see the film you’ll know that takes up a lot of time. But [00:42:00] I am getting everything done for sure. We’ve had a couple of art galas, which were very successful for Artists Plex and more things are in store for sure.
AM: Nice.
Julia: And if people want to find Artists Plex, they can.
Nats: Yes. I’m not gonna dish out all this stuff.
Maybe you have a, something you can point to a link or a something. I put something right here. Okay. Yeah, there’s merchandise. If you wanted to support us, you can totally go buy some of our merch. Support us. You can become a, I think we have a newsletter link at the bottom of our website. Check that out.
Hit up our Instagram. Check out some of the old footage from our past events. Come get to know us. We’ll be around.
AM: And Julia, you, how about you?
Julia: Since the film ended, I have had another kid. I have a fresh one that’s been interrupting this podcast. And I have, I’m in the pitching phase of a couple projects that I’m really excited about that hopefully by the [00:43:00] time this podcast comes out, we’ll all be funded- no….
AM: what, in closing, like what’s this like a final thought that we can share with our audience about this whole thing, this whole process, the rollout, everything.
Nats: They should know that we’re thinking about them throughout the whole entire process. We’re not just thinking about ourselves. We’re thinking about the entire community from the title of the film to wanting to show it to the community. We want to organize around it. We want to bring it to them.
AM: That’s
beautiful.
Nats: Yeah. Know that they’re in community with us and we are in community with them.
I love it. Thank you. Do we wanna plug, did you wanna say something, Julia?
Julia: I was just gonna, I was just gonna add to that’s point that I think something that’s been really exciting with the rollout is focusing on community screenings in different ways that we can do that in [00:44:00] 2026. And some of that is live and in person, but some of it’s also online like we’ve been doing. And so if anyone, if would like to see the film it will be out on Kinema, o nline and able to be rented and viewed pretty soon, maybe by the time this podcast comes out, but if not relatively soon afterwards.
And then you can also organize a screening through that site. And I think something that’s really important to me as a filmmaker and definitely for this film is just ha like being able to use the film as a tool for whoever’s in it. Otherwise what are we doing? This should be a conversation starter for whoever you know, would like to have that conversation. So it’s available, it will be available on for that, and you’ll be able to set up your own screenings and events and if that’s something that you’d like to do.
AM: Awesome.
Selena: I’d like to say that I feel really honored to have had my story shared and Nats story shared and, there are so many wonderful, stories by sex workers that I would love to see [00:45:00] immortalized in such a beautiful way. And I really hope that more filmmakers like Julia keep looking into this topic and keep trying to create hor humane portraits of us that really show who we are. And yeah, I really hope for that and I’m really happy to be part of this one.
AM: I love
Julia: that. This is so lucky to have these two. Are you kidding? Yeah, I am. So you don’t, I don’t have to tell you, but they are, yeah.
AM: Yes.
Julia: This
AM: cream of the crop
Julia: does not exist without them. Yeah. And like I know if you have a more boring person, sorry. This needs No,
AM: no boring people.
Julia: No boring people.
Yeah. I know it’s cheesy, but they’re like, I’m like, I wanna be them.
AM: Awesome.
Julia: Very inspiring.
AM: Thank you so much all of you for being here and for. I think we did a great job. We made it happen despite
Julia: we did it,
AM: the things [00:46:00] that we went through, we did it, and we’re here and today’s a great day. Today’s International Sex Workers’ Rights Day.
It’s March 3rd, 2026. We have a streaming tonight. We have more streamings come coming out, so keep an eye out for new streamings, including one coming up with YAS Work. Thank you so much for tuning in and for listening, and we will. See you next time. Bye
Ad: YAS Podcast began as “Yes, a Stripper Podcast”. With original hosts AM Davies, Onyx Sachi, GiGi Holliday and Daisy Ducati. Visit yaspodcast.com to learn about our hosts, our story, and comb through our archives of transcripts. You’ll also find episodes as far back as 2020. That’s yaspodcast.com. YAS Podcast is a part of YAS Network. a collection of podcasts created through YAS [00:47:00] Work.